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James Seddon (addition 2023)

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Nov 2023 00:40

In 1901 it's probably still a pub, though not named - the address is just 32 Market Street.

Ralph Hofoe
in the 1901 England Census
Name Ralph Hofoe [Hope]
Age 45
Estimated Birth Year abt 1856
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Spouse Mary Ellen Hofoe
Birth Place Atherton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Atherton
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St John the Baptist
Town Atherton
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration district Leigh
Sub-registration district Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel 04
Neighbors
Piece 3595
Folio 90
Page number 2
Household schedule number 15
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Ralph Hofoe 45 Head - innkeeper <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mary Ellen Hofoe 46 Wife
Betsy Smith 15 Servant

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Nov 2023 00:42

Same man running it in 1911, and it's called the Jolly Naylor:

Ralph Hope
in the 1911 England Census
Name Ralph Hope
Age in 1911 56
Estimated Birth Year abt 1855
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Birth Place Atherton, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Atherton
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 32 Market St
Marital Status Married
Occupation Beerhouse Keeper <<<<<<<<<<<
Registration District Number 460
Sub-registration district Atherton
ED, institution, or vessel 03
Piece 23233
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Ralph Hope 56 Head
Mary Ellen Hop 56 Wife
Maggie Clerk 19 Servant

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Nov 2023 00:57

There's still a pub of that name in Atherton, though now at 20-22 Market Street:

https://whatpub.com/pubs/LSE/12941/jolly-nailor-inn-atherton


I don't see 32 Market Street in 1939.

This MAY be an unnamed pub at 23/25 Market Street in 1939:

Thomas Houghton
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name Thomas Houghton
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Birth Date 6 Nov 1887
Residence Date 1939
Address 23/25 Garden Place
Residence Place Atherton, Lancashire, England
Occupation License Beer Retailer <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Line Number 15
Schedule Number 19
Sub Schedule Number 1
Enumeration District Ntkg
Borough Atherton
Registration district 460-1
Inferred Spouse
Susan M Houghton
Inferred Children
Thomas Houghton
John Houghton
Household Members (Name) Gender
Thomas Houghton Male - Licensed beer retailer
Susan M Houghton Female - Assistant to licensed beer retailer
Thomas Houghton Male
John Houghton Male
Josephine Allmond Female - Barmaid, beerhouse
Margaret Bowe Female - Barmaid, beerhouse
Alice Bell Female

It's not clear from the image if it's 23/25 Garden Place as transcribed, or 23/25 Market Street as it appears to be, if the image is correct.

Yvonne

Yvonne Report 6 Nov 2023 21:06

I think it’s strange that there doesn’t seem to be anything on Google. Not really sure what to make of.
Thanks.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 6 Nov 2023 23:40

I posted a link to the present Jolly Nailor, at its current address.

The old address, 32 Market Street, now seems to be a beauty salon / barber's shop.

You can add details of the Jolly Nailor at the old address on this site if you wish -
https://www.closedpubs.co.uk/lancashire/atherton.html

Yvonne

Yvonne Report 7 Nov 2023 01:01

Thanks so much. Does seem strange that it changed location though.
I’ll try to follow up on it.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 7 Nov 2023 09:51

Size may have been a factor.
The present address looks like a "proper" big pub building, whereas the old address is a much smaller terraced property.

Or the original business may have closed down, and a new one started, using the old name.

Perhaps the owners/operators of the present Jolly Nailor could tell you some of the history.

Or try contacting Wigan Archives Service:

https://archives.wigan.gov.uk/contact

Yvonne

Yvonne Report 7 Nov 2023 15:16

Think you read my mind??
I was going to contact somebody over there, thanks for the link, I’ll follow it up.

Yvonne

Yvonne Report 7 Nov 2023 22:00

I've written off to the link you gave me and hopefully they can give us some answers. I looked at the 1921 census and the pub is still at 32 Market Street with the same person running it as in 1911. It seems that things changed between 1921 and 1939. Hopefully, Wigan Archives can give some explanation.
Thanks for your help.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Nov 2023 09:25

You're welcome - good luck!

Yvonne

Yvonne Report 16 Nov 2023 21:26

Have received a reply from Wigan Archives. Apparently, the Jolly Nailor Beerhouse was in operation at 32 Market Street until 1929. In 1929 the brewery got permission to rebuild it and I guess this is when it moved to the other location. It was upgraded to a public house in 1951.
Wigan Archives couldn't give an explanation for the sign but suggested it might have something to do with the brewery.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 16 Nov 2023 23:20

That's interesting, Yvonne.
Thanks for letting us know.

But strange about the sign saying "Est. 1909", as you say.

Maybe that's when it got a full licence, and became a pub rather than just a beerhouse ??
I don't know - just guessing wildly.



"Pubs and Beerhouses – What’s the difference? Well, we have taken the word ‘pub’ to mean any establishment which sold alcoholic beverages regardless of whether they were an inn, a hotel, a beerhouse or any other place which required a full licence from 1830 to sell all types of beer, wine and spirits.
A beerhouse, on the other hand, under the 1830 Beer Act was only licensed to sell beer, and not wine or spirits."
https://www.wivenhoehistory.org.uk/content/topics/wivenhoe-history-group/projects/wivenhoes-pubs/pubs-and-beerhouses-whats-the-difference