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I'm doubtful about Emma Clark, unless John's YOB is badly wrong in 1851.

Re Lucy Stallard, I don't see anyone of that name born or living in London in 1861.

There's this one, as a long shot:

Lucy Stallard
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Lucy Stallard
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: 1832
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Female
Where born: N
Civil Parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: Kemp Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 62
Piece: 592
Folio: 105
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
John Batchelor 57
Jane Batchelor 41
Lucy Stallard 29


I don't see her death, though.

I had been following Lucy too and so far have come up with this:

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Ernest Street, Bermondsey, St Olave Southwark, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Lucy Gibbons - - Female 36 1835 - Sussex, England

Image says that she is 'married', an Annuitant, born in Brighton.
----------------------



1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
John Street, Brighthelmstone, Brighton, Sussex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Mary Stallard Head Widow Female 55 1796 Washerwoman Weymouth, Dorset, England
Transcription
George Stallard Son Unmarried Male 23 1828 Labourer Brighton, Sussex, England
Transcription
Lucy Stallard Daughter Unmarried Female 19 1832 Ironer Brighton, Sussex, England
Transcription
Charlotte Langbrige Visitor Unmarried Female 19 1832 Ironer Brighton, Sussex, England



I think this is also the family on 1841 (still no William !)
1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Grosvenor Street, Brighton, Sussex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Gender Age Birth year Birth place
Thomas Chiles Male 50 1791 Sussex, England
Transcription
Mary Chiles Female 45 1796 Sussex, England
Transcription
Mary Chiles Female 11 1830 Sussex, England
Transcription
Jane Stallard Female 20 1821 Sussex, England
Transcription
James Stallard Male 18 1823 Sussex, England
Transcription
George Stallard Male 12 1829 Sussex, England
Transcription
Lucy Stallard Female 9 1832 Sussex, England
Transcription
Edward Stallard Male 8 1833 Sussex, England
Transcription
Richard MacKford Male 75 1766 Sussex, England

On the surface it looks like Mary (her mother) married Thomas Chiles but I don't think it is the same Mary and I can't find a marriage ?? I think they are seperate households at the same address?





If this is her then her father IS a William !
Name: Lucy Stallard
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 26 Feb 1831
Baptism Place: Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Father: William Stallard
Mother: Mary
FHL Film Number: 1067108


Could be her death?
Deaths Jun 1898 (>99%)
Gibbons Lucy 70 Brighton 2b 159 Scan available - click to view

She does appear to have knocked a few years off her age over time but then John was SO much younger than her?

Dea x

EDIT:
The Jane Batchelor you have her with on 1861 is her sister!

Marriages Sep 1843 (>99%)
BATCHELOR John Brighton 7 340
STALLARD Jane Brighton 7 340

Dea x

ArgyllGran, I'm not sure why the marriage of Emma Clark would question the age of John Gibbons on the 1851 census that I posted showing Eliza E with her possible parents? You don't think then that her father's name may also have been John? I wondered if her father and her husband's father may have been brothers.


Here's Emma Clark in 1841 and allowing for the "rounding down" of ages it ties in with the 1851 census.

Emma Clark
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

View image
Registration district: St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: Cavendish Square
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 676
Book: 1
Folio: 8
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
John Clark 60, Auctioneer
Emma Clark 25
Elizabeth Morre 40
Ann Kilsey 15
John Wythe 50

Sorry, Rootgatherer -

I was wrongly thinking that the John Gibbons in 1851 was the John Gibbons who married Eliza E.

Senior moment!

Lucy Stallard's mother in 1861:

Mary Stallard

in the 1861 England Census
Record Image View

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Report issue

Name: Mary Stallard
Age: 65
Estimated Birth Year: 1796
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Weymouth, Dorset, England
Civil Parish: Brighton
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Registration district: Brighton
Sub-registration district: Kemp Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 63
Piece: 592
Folio: 105
Page Number: 11
Household Members:
Name Age
William Davey 44
Emily Davey 47
William H Davey 20
Douglas Davey 18
Walter Davey 12
Rupert Davey 10
Emily Davey 7
Mary Stallard 65

Christening of Lucy's brother George? Father William !!


George Stallard
England Births and Christenings
Name George Stallard
Gender Male
Christening Date 24 Dec 1826
Christening Place BRIGHTON, SUSSEX, ENGLAND
Father's Name William Stallard
Mother's Name Mary


and brother James:


James Stallard
England Births and Christenings
Name James Stallard
Gender Male
Christening Date 24 Dec 1826
Christening Place BRIGHTON, SUSSEX, ENGLAND
Birth Date 18 Mar 1822
Father's Name William Stallard
Mother's Name Mary

Dea ...........


that 1841 Census is confusing!!

The double line indicating separate houses is actually between George Stallard and Lucy ............ so the elder Stallards are seemingly in the same house as the Chiles, while the 2 younger ones are with Richard Mackford


I think you are correct ............. they are separate households, but I also think "Chiles" should be "Childs"

I cannot find a Mary Chiles born ca 1832 anywhere else, BUT there is a baptism for a Mary Childs in 1830 at Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, parents Thomas Childs and Mary

???????????????


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

Name: Thomas Child
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 19 Oct 1834
Marriage Place: St. Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex, England
Spouse: Mary Tilly
FHL Film Number: 1468821
Reference ID: IT1 P207 No619

image not available

I can't find a marriage for William Stallard and Mary in Sussex ............... but there are 5 elsewhere in England between , and mary does say in the 1861 Census that she was born in Weymouth, Dorset


All England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973

William Stallard Jun 1824 Kings Caple,Hereford,England Mary

William Stallard 22 Jun 1812 Saint Marys,Portsea,Hampshire,England Mary

William Stallard 7 Feb 1815 Saint George The Martyr, Southwark, Surrey, England Mary

William Stallard 1 Jul 1815 Bedminster, Somerset, England Mary

William Stallard 23 Feb 1819 Ansford,Somerset,England Mary Stephens

Really puzzled by all of this. Have ordered JG's Death Cert to try to glean any more background information.
Stand by ...........!

DC for JG arrived. He died on 20.8.1882 @ St.Thomas's Hospital, London, aged 40, Coachman. Cause of death: 'Fractured ribs and Shock. Fell off a Brougham accidentally. 3 days.' Ooooh dear, poor chap.

Now I'm back into 'family whispers' territory because it was always believed that he had been kicked to death by one of the horses in the Royal Mews. Now deffo NOT the case. But wonder whether perhaps the said Brougham was 'Royal'????!!

Inquest was held on 24.8.1882. Is it possible to find this inquest? - would it have been reported in the papers?? Hope so.

Nicola from FMP

FATAL CARRIAGE ACCIDENT.
Thomas’s Hospital, London, into the circumstances attending the death of John Gibbons, .aged years, lately residing 1 12a, Kulhara-road, Middlesex, who was killed falling from a brougham. William James, 419, V division, deposed that was on duty in the Queen’s-ro

will try and attach it to PM

RR, you are such a loyal GR friend. I can't believe that you got on to this so fast for me!
That is an amazing result. Can't wait for the PM.
:-D

that's a very interesting article!

I've pm'd RR to thank her personally.

Well, bang goes the 'Royal' connection. As my cousin said after I told her "Oh dear, so he was a drunk driver". She has a great sense of humour!!

Now, I wonder how we go about finding his burial? Any thoughts, please??

at least the coroner's report was not as gory as the one that was found for me regarding my gt grandfather who fell out a train carriage onto the rails below in 1877.

The newspaper report filled 2 very long columns, with full description of his injuries ...... and ended with the Coroner saying that he believed the family would have a case to sue the train company for not ensuring that the carriage door on the track side was securely locked.

His widow and children didn't have the money to do that.


but the article did prove wrong my inherited family story that gt grandfather had saved a little girl from falling out of a carriage somewhere on the Lancashire/Yorkshire Moors, but had fallen out himself.

er no ............. it was at a train station in Oldham, and he was trying to see if the train had reached the station (it had stopped just outside)

Sylvia, you made me laugh! In fact, one of my ancestors had an equally gory end to yours and also at the hands of the railways. See my post -PLEASE: National Archives look up. Although my original heading was 'Gruesome ....' but a GR advised me to change it.

My ancestor went under the wheels of an almost stationary train as it was coming into Kings X. He was in too much of a hurry to secure a horsedrawn cab, opened the train carriage door and slipped and fell. The inquest decided that a contributory cause of his death was "his age and corpulence". Ooooh dear! It also mentioned that in those days there were no steps leading from the carriage to the platform and this was an added safety hazard. He lived long enough for them to get him to hospital on a cart and to tell them his name; he was a Barrister.

Then there was a hooha because they couldn't locate his Will but eventually it was found. He is buried under a rather grand and 'over the top' monument with some other family members.

How I love family history with all its twists and turns.

Mine was only a lowly Ag Lab, who'd moved to the industrial north for more money (???)

Strangely, they put him in a barrow, took him into the station, the station master then took the last train back into the town and called for a doctor. The doctor's assistant went to look at my gt grandfather and ordered him taken to the hospital in town. So, he was put on or in an engine and taken back to town to be transferred to the hospital ............... but he died before the train engine got back to town.

His body then stayed at the closest station to where he died until the next day when it was transferred to a station on the other side of the one where he'd died ........ so he retraced the journey. Two coroners said it now wasn't in their jurisdiction.

He fell out of the train on Saturday night, and the inquest wasn't held until Thursday

Luckily, his nephew was travelling with him, so he was identified quickly.

Can some kind soul guide me please on John Gibbons' possible PLACE OF BURIAL?

He died at St.Thomas' Hospital and his address at the time was 142a Fulham Road, all London.

Thank you.

(one below, credits needed to view)

https://www.deceasedonline.com/

Chris :)

Burial Register summary
last name GIBBONS
first names JOHN
Burial date 26 August 1882
Authority Brompton Cemetery
Location Brompton Cemetery (Kensington and Chelsea)


Edits

31 August 1882 - Banbury Advertiser - Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Death
Gibbons - August 20. at St Thomas's Hospital, London, (from the effects of brougham accident), John, the second son of Mr Charles Gibbons, of Altrop Mills, King's Sutton, aged 40 years.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brougham_(carriage)

A brougham (pronounced "broom" or "brohm") was a light, four-wheeled horse-drawn carriage built in the 19th century.