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Laird..Have been chasing around and am still not sure about who is who...

The MC for James Fleming and Mary Brown had James signing his name but the one for marrying Mary Lynch has his" Mark"..the signatures for both Mary Brown and Mary Lynch are identical..Thought at first Father Ryan had filled them in but they are not witnessed as is Michael Halloran (witness to James and Mary.Brown')...
Somewhere the Halloran family are connected to both as Mary Halloran was present at the Birth of John Christopher Brown Fleming 1892 and the bros.Michael and Thom.were witnessess' on both wedding certs.

The horror I see there is a serious conflict in Mary Frances Fleming date of birth. Ok I'm going to check her 1939 census date of birth and see where this leads.

Have this Church Baptism record for Mary Frances Fleming 1893-

https://imgur.com/a/0VFWO

Then this Church marriage record for James Fleming & Mary Lynch 1891-

https://imgur.com/a/94eV9

'The 1939 register has Mary Frances Fleming (Nelson) date of birth as 17th August 1893, but the birth certificate gives a birth date of 27th September 1893. Are you certain she was born Ireland?'

AustinQ I was pretty sure up until tonight that my great grandmother was from Ireland, County Cork. My mum who knew her granny when she was little said she had a strong accent.

Obviously i've looked for a English possibility and there is none that I can find. My AncestryDNA is picking up that i am 30% Irish so it looks very likely that the Fleming connection is Irish and yes I know that's not a given. From my other thread I see I have an Irish connection via the Frizzell.

Your help and you others much appreciated.......i'd really like to resolve this mystery :-)

Here is Mary Frances Fleming-

https://imgur.com/a/dVy7L

Ok i'm working almost blind here so i text my mum and i ask her why did she think her grandmother Mary Frances Fleming/Nelson is Irish, she thought it was a joke.....her answer was because she knew her when she was a little girl and said she had an Irish accent and was from Cork.

Folks i gotta work with what I got, i'm 30% Irish in my DNA and my mum is telling me her grandma was Irish. :-)

I think that I found your great grandmother Laird

1) James Fleming and May Browne married in 1887 and we can find the births of 2 sons.
They can be eliminated
******************************
2) James Fleming and Mary Lynch married in 1891 and we can find the births of 2 children:
Mary Frances 1893 and Jeremiah 1896.

There is a matching death of Jeremiah Fleming age1 registered in Monmouthshire
Jeremiah Fleming
Estimated birth year: abt 1897
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 1
Registration district: Newport

1901 census:
10 New Street, Newport

James Fleming 35 seaman b Whitegate, Cork
Minnie Fleming 30 Wife b Whitegate, Cork
Fanny Fleming 7 dau B Whitegate, Cork

At 1911 the family are at 47 Alexandra Road, Newport.
The house is full of relatives and lodgers
The original is a mess and the transcript is worse, but it is the family of James Fleming and Mary Lynch.
Minnie Fleming signed the census

Mary Frances is still entered as Fanny Fleming

Name Age
......James Fleming 47 Seaman b Ireland
William Smith 45
Mike Feen 36
Timothy Keenan 35
John Henwood 40
Alf Linde 45
Peter Linstrum 30
Patsy Doram 21
""""Minnie Fleming 43 Wife B Ireland
.....Janny Fleming 18 Original clearly says Fanny
Dan Chelson 50
Mary Lynch 18 Cousin b Bristol?
Gladys Griffiths 10 Cousin B Bristol
Thomas Meale 53
James Dockney 33
Thomas Collins 33

Irish accent when your mother was a child??
She left Ireland at the age of 3 or 4 but, she either moved back to Ireland or lived among other Irish people.
Last seen in Wales 1911 and married in Durham 17 yrs later.!

GlasgowLass your amazing! :-D

Did your mother know her as Fanny?

Also, the 1911 census states that Minnie had 3 children with just one still living... Mary Frances (Fanny)

Jeremiah was born 1896 and died 1897
Who was the other child?

GlasgowLass have just found this in my archive suddenly things fall into place :-)

https://imgur.com/a/oFNyH

Very well done GlasgowLass. What a find!

Regarding the Irish accent, until I started researching family history, I thought my Grandmother was Irish. She kinda led us to believe she was and spoke with a slight Irish accent. Turned out she was born in Scotland of Irish parents.her family moved to Ireland when she was 7 but she returned at 18. Guess she was just proud of her Irish heritage. By contrast, my other grandmother was Irish born and lived there until she was 15 and didn't have an Irish accent at all :-) :-) :-)

Woo Hoo.
Glad that's sorted then.

I Know exactly what you mean Rootgatherer.
My mum left Ireland at 19yrs.
She had still had a strong accent when I was young but apart from the odd word or saying, she was ":Pure Dead Glasgow" by middle age

By Contrast her cousins were all born in Glasgow.
They were evacuated back to Ireland after the Clydebank Blitz and returned there after the war.
They only lived in Ireland for 6yrs!
Their mother was Irish ( my grandmother's sister) but these cousins still have Irish accents and they are in their 70's and 80's now

A random, semi educated guess.

Is this the 3rd Fleming child?

Birth:
Mary Elizabeth Fleming
Registration Year: 1909
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Newport

Death:
Mary E Fleming
Estimated birth year: abt 1909
Registration Year: 1911
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar ( just before 1911 census)
Age at Death: 2
Registration district: Newport


Minnie's death?

Minnie Fleming
Estimated birth year: abt 1871
Registration Year: 1915
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at Death: 44
Registration district: Newport

There's a Minnie that was very close to my nana Emily Nelson i'm not sure of the relationship though. Photo attached.....looks very 1960's though.

https://imgur.com/a/mbe3D

Incidentally is there a death record for Mary Frances (Fanny) Fleming's dad James Fleming? I assume before 1928.

Well found on those census GlasgowLass!

That's not the third child GlasgowLass as, from the GRO index the mmn is Olsen.

So I need to look for records in Wales most likely about 1915-25 for James Fleming death record. Specific likely to Newport. Thanks everyone this has been amazing.

Laird..Still cannot find another Birth in Cork (Middleton) for James and Mary....

Marys parents ..Jeremiah died 1910
Catherine died 1918...
The 1911 Census shows she was a widow but fortunately stated she had been married 40 yrs..had 5 children and only 2 living.
Check 1901 and 1911 Census there is a James Lynch (Tailor) living Whitegate..he is their son Mary's brother..he married Brid.Murphy in 1898