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This is the brother

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
CRAMP, NORTHCOTE WILLIS SINGLE
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in HONITON Volume 05B Page 23

1 Record(s) Found

This is William's first marriage which was to Julia Sabina's sister Emma:


Marriages Dec 1886 (>99%)
Single Emma Chard 5c 738*

Marriages Dec 1886 (>99%)
CRAMP William Chard 5c 733* Scan available - click to view ************* - wrong number transcribed !!!



1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census
(New Inn), Chard Municipal Borough, Chard, Somerset, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Northcott Single Head Married Male 51 1830 Licensed Victualler Chard, Somerset, England
Mary Single Wife Married Female 50 1831 - Chard, Somerset, England
John Single Son Single Male 13 1868 - Chard, Somerset, England
Julia Single Daughter Single Female 16 1865 Barmaid Chard, Somerset, England *
Emma Single Daughter Single Female 23 1858 Barmaid Chard, Somerset, England *
Luisa Single Daughter Single Female 10 1871 Scholar Chard, Somerset, England
Ada Single Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Chard, Somerset, England


So Alice Maud (Maud Alice) was 'their' child !

This must be Emma's death:
Deaths Mar 1891 (>99%)
Cramp Emma 31 Honiton 5b 17

Dea x

Some newspaper items...

Chris :)

06 February 1891 - Western Gazette - Yeovil, Somerset, England

Deaths
Cramp.—Feb. 3, at West End, Honiton, Emma, wife of Mr William Cramp, and second daughter ot Mr. Northcote Single, of Chard, aged 31.


12 May 1893 - Western Gazette - Yeovil, Somerset, England

Birth
Cramp.—May 4, at West-end, Honiton, the wife Mr. Wm. G. Cramp, of a son.


Somerset Baptism Index (Find My Past)

First name(s) Maud Alice
Last name Cramp
Baptism year 1888
Baptism date 06 Jul 1888
Residence Ilminster
Denomination Anglican
Place Ilminster
Somerset Baptism Index
County Somerset
Country England
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Cramp
Mother's first name(s) Emma
Father's occupation Tailor
Event type Baptisms
Archive Somerset Archives
Document type Parish records
Page 43
Archive reference D/P/ILM 2/1/17
Year range 1883-1901
Record set Somerset Baptism Index


19 March 1902 - Western Daily Press - Bristol, Bristol, England

Deaths
TANNER - March 15. at 6. Clarence Place. Cotham. Sabina. beloved wife of John Tanner, aged 64. Deeply mourned by her sorrowing friends. No flowers.


Edits (can see a Burial, Honiton, for Emma Cramp, 1891, 5th February, notes this has also been previously viewed!)

So - trying to sort out dates -

Arthur born 7th May 1889-91. 1901 says 1891; 1911 says 1891; 1939 says 1890.

Northcote born May 1893. That's fact per birth record. Also per Mildred's army record, although 1901 and 1939 both say 1894.


Mildred born May 1894 , per army record and 1939. But 1901 says 1893.

Emma died Feb 1891.

Julia Sabina/Sabrina was already with William in April 1891, as housekeeper/future wife.

No sign of Arthur in 1891, and in 1901 Mildred and Arthur are described as niece and nephew of William.
No sign of births of either of them as Cramp.

They do seem to have been born under some other surname, and then perhaps adopted by William.
Still seems strange to me that they both have birth date of 7th May - almost as if it was a deliberate choice if real date was unknown, perhaps.

Foundlings or similar ?? No actual relation ??

The terms "Niece" and "Nephew" could be used quite vaguely to include or gloss over many relationships

As the YOB's are all so variable, maybe Arthur wasn't born until 1891, after the census?

Seems strange, lol...

(I know School Admission Records can be a bit 'out' with Birth dates, but that also states 7/5/90 for Arthur)

Chris :)

Edits (other Birth dates given for School Adms. Cramp, Honiton)...

Frank P, 9/5/95

Milly, 7/5/93 another states 7/1/93

Northcote, 4/5/93 another as Northcott, 4/5/93

(above have all been previously 'viewed, before as well, that seems strange also, unless 'Search All Member Trees' has any connections relating, googling usually brings up past queries)


Found Baptism (FMP) for Frank Percival 1914, Glamorgan, Birth date as 9/5/1895.

Arthur a Widower,1933 Marriage, is below his first?...

Chris :)

Marriages Mar 1925 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------
Cramp Arthur Woodham Cardiff 11a 408
Woodham Gertrude Cramp Cardiff 11a 408


Deaths Dec 1925 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------
Cramp Gertrude 26 Cardiff 11a 511


(also below!)

Marriages Mar 1928 (>99%)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
CRAMP Northcote W Woodham Cardiff 11a 387
Woodham Mildred M Cramp Cardiff 11a 387

Hmmm - the other Mildred's army record mentions Cardiff - though I can't see the National Archives image clearly enough to know in what context.

Not that it helps with her birth, though.

A massive thank you to everyone for kindly looking up these records for me. From your research I discovered that Maud Cramp in the 1891 census was staying with her Aunt Sabina Tanner, her maiden name was Trott. Mary Trott was the mother of Emma Cramp nee Single who was married to William Cramp and who died in 1891.

I had wondered if Arthur was actually Emma's son but William Cramp not the father hence all the muddling of the dates.

I am very grateful to you all. :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

But wouldn’t any of the births still be registered as cramp ?

None show which means they weren’t registered with that name