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Coming back to this out of curiosity more than anything

Dorothy's elder (half?)sister, Nathalie, is in the same home in 1911

I wish to thank everyone with all their help with Dorothy and her family, appreciated!

Marriages Dec 1916 (>99%)
Gardner Frederick R Saunders S. Stoneham 2c 161
Saunders Cissie M Gardner S.Stoneham 2c 161

1939
55 The Crescent, Eastleigh M.B., Hampshire, England
Frederick R Gardner 16 Sep 1877 Male Coach Trimmer S Railway Married 64 1
Cissie M Andrews (Gardner) 12 Feb 1888 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 64 2
Richard F Gardner 06 Jun 1918 Male Fitter R A F Single 64 3
Trixie M Barradell (Gardner) 18 May 1927 Female At School Single 64 4

Named a daughter after her dead sister

A couple of years knocked off her age...............baptism shows her birth to have been 12th Feb 1886

Marriages Mar 1951 (>99%)
ANDREWS Ernest J GARDNER Winchester 6b 1611
GARDNER Cissie M ANDREWS Winchester 6b 1611

Deaths Dec 1954 (>99%)
Andrews Cissie M 66 Winchester 6b 632

_______________________________________________
Marriages Sep 1948 (>99%)
Barradell Francis Gardner Southampton 6b 1817
Gardner Trixie M Barradell Southampton 6b 1817

First name(s) TRIXIE MAUD
Last name BARRADELL
Gender Female
Birth day 18
Birth month 5
Birth year 1927
Death quarter 1
Death year 1993
District Southampton
District number 5001
Register number E57
Entry number 299
Date of registration mm/yy 0393

First name(s) Trixie Maud
Last name Barradell
Death year 1993
Death date 06 Mar 1993
Probate year 1993
Probate date 25 Mar 1993
Registry Winchester

Marriages Jun 1839 (>99%)
BATH Mary Ann Stoke Damerel 9 482 b
SAUNDERS Thomas Stoke Damerel 9 482




First name(s) Mary Ann
Last name Bath
Age Full
Birth year -
Year 1839
Marriage date 05 Jun 1839
Denomination Anglican
Place Stoke Damerel
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Bath
Spouse's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's last name Saunders
Spouse's age Full
Spouse's father's first name(s) Charles
Spouse's father's last name Saunders

You can see the cert on familysearch

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:939N-QWJ1-Y?i=121&cc=1804330

1871

Name: Lauria Saunders
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: 1860
Relation: Daughter
Gender: Female
Where born: ?? Ireland
Civil Parish: Ventnor
Ecclesiastical parish: St Catherine
Town: Ventnor
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Registration district: Isle Of Wight
Sub-registration district: Godshill
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 229
Piece: 1169
Folio: 121
Page Number: 48
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Saunders 55
Mary Ann Saunders 54
Margaret Barry 31
Charles Saunders 16
Rebecca Saunders 14
Lauria Saunders 11
Esther Saunders 9
Henry Saunders 7
Elizabeth Saunders 3

SAUNDERS, ELIZABETH BATH
GRO Reference: 1867 M Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 426

Name: Louisa Mary Saunders
Gender: Female
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 19 Jun 1889
Baptism Place: Paddington St Augustine, Westminster, England
Father: Frank Saunders
Mother: Louisa Emma Saunders

Name: Herbert Victor Saunders
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 13 Jun 1900
Baptism Place: Paddington St Saviour, Westminster, England
Father: Frank Saunders
Mother: Louisa Emma Saunders
Register Type: Parish Registers

Interestingly, a tree on Ancestry has the following for Frank Carlton Saunders

Father: Frank?
Mother: Louise Emma Saunders, born 1859, Wexford, Ireland , father Thomas mother Mary Ann BATH

Birth
13 Nov 1892 • Hendon, Middlesex, England
3 Sources
1892

(AGE)

Baptism
11 Dec 1892 • St Luke, West Kilburn, Westminster, London, England
Residence: Carlton Vale, London, England

1 Source
1892

Birth of Half-Sister Dorothy May Lloyd (Saunders)(1894–1990)
24 Jan 1894 • London, England
1894

1

Birth of Brother Herbert Victor Saunders(1897–1981)
13 Jul 1897 • Willesden, Middlesex, England
1897

4

Death of Sister Trixie Elise Saunders(1884–1898)
1898 • Paddington, London, England
______________________________________________________________

Name: Louisa Emma Saunders
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Registration Year: 1907
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 48
Registration district: St Marylebone
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1a
Page: 282

1901
Name: Louise Emma Saunders
Age: 42
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Willesden
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Hendon
Sub-registration district: Willesden
ED, institution, or vessel: 45
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1222
Folio: 8
Page Number: 8
Household schedule number: 70
Household Members:
Name Age
Louise Emma Saunders 42
Cissy Myra Saunders 15
Nathlie Louie Saunders 12
Herbert Victor Saunders 3months
Mary Foley 74

1881
Name: Louisa E. Saunders
Age: 21
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Cork, Ireland
Civil Parish: Harrow
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Street address: College Rd
Occupation: Domestic Serv
Registration district: Hendon

1891

Name: Louisa Saunders
Gender: Female
Age: 31
Relationship: Head
Birth Year: 1860
Child: Kessie Saunders
Cissie Saunders
Nathalie Saunders
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Paddington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
Residence Place: Paddington, London, England
Registration district: Paddington
Sub registration district: St Mary Paddington
ED, Institution or Vessel: 32a
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 9
Folio: 85
Household Members:
Name Age
Louisa Saunders 31 SINGLE
Kessie Saunders 7
Cissie Saunders 5****************************Deaf and dumb
Nathalie Saunders 5/12
Edith Long 2

SAUNDERS, NATHALIE LOUISE - (NO MMN)
GRO Reference: 1890 D Quarter in PADDINGTON Volume 01A Page 24

Name: Nathalie Louise Saunders
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 21 Jan 1891
Baptism Place: Paddington St Augustine, Westminster, England
Father: Frank Saunders
Mother: Louisa Saunders
Register Type: Parish Registers

Name: Nathalie Louise Saunders
Gender: Female
Marriage Banns Age: 27
Record Type: Banns (Bann)
Birth Date: abt 1890
Marriage Banns Date: 9 May 1917
Marriage Banns Place: Holy Trinity, Clapham, Lambeth, England
Spouse: Philip King Jones
Register Type: Parish Register

SAUNDERS, CISSY MIRA -
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in PADDINGTON Volume 01A Page 48

Using her own father's name this time
Name: Cissey Mira Saunders
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 9 May 1886
Baptism Place: West Kilburn St Luke, Westminster, England
Father: Thomas Saunders
Mother: Louisa Saunders

SAUNDERS, TRIXIE (NO MMN)
GRO Reference: 1884 M Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 611
Kessie on census
Name: Trixie Elise Saunders
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Registration Year: 1898
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 14
Registration district: Paddington
Inferred County: London

1901?

First name(s) Dorothy
Last name Saunders
Relationship -
Marital status Single
Sex Female
Age 7
Birth year 1894
Birth town London
Birth place England
Birth place other as transcribed -
Birth county Middlesex
Birth county as transcribed LONDON
Occupation Patient
House name Isolation Hospital
House number -
Street -
Town Ealing
Parish Ealing

No, I didn't 'forget' that people lie, but.....................

in Dorothy's case the discrepancy is exactly one year - not a few weeks

Erika and Shirley ....................


you forget that people sometimes did give the wrong birth date to the Registrar

........... if they were registering later than the 6 weeks and they didn't want to pay the fine!

In that case, the usual birth date would be at least a couple of months earlier than the certificate says.

The baptism often proves that "lie" .............. especially if it happens several months earlier :-D



AG ............. it seems your father-in-law went the opposite way to my grandfather who celebrated 2 weeks earlier than he was born. Although mine also often said he was also born a year earlier :-D

I don't see Dorothy or her parents in 1901 either, nor their marriage.


Frank junior is at the Harvey Goodwin Home for Waifs and Strays in 1901.
So I suppose Dorothy isn't with her parents either.

In 1911 she's at St Faith's Home, 35 Cedars Rd, Clapham (the address on the marriage banns).
The image says "This is a home for deaf and dumb girls. . . . The matron states that she has filled in all the particulars she can obtain."

So that explains the DOB discrepancy, if Dorothy was also in a home in 1901, which seems likely though I haven't found her yet and the person in charge didn't have the correct details.

Dorothy would go through life believing what she had been told (by the matron) about her DOB, and nobody would know any different.

Dorothy's brother's baptism

Name: Frank Carlton Saunders
Gender: Male
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 11 Dec 1892
Baptism Place: West Kilburn St Luke, Westminster, England
Father: Frank Saunders
Mother: Louisa Saunders
Register Type: Parish Registers

1901

Name: Frank C Saunders
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1891
Gender: Male
Birth Place: London, England
Civil Parish: Chesterton
Ecclesiastical parish: Chesterton St Luke
Town: Chesterton
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England
Registration district: Chesterton
Sub-registration district: Fulbourn
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1524
Folio: 86
Page Number: 9
Household schedule number: 74
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank C Saunders 10

He also 'gained' a year - a family trait, it seems

Dorothy’s birth is registered in JFM qtr 1895. As I said above, ignore every other record

Can you post the 1901 census? I'm not seeing her with those parents, or a marriage or birth for a Louisa Emma Bath.

Rose

It’s not possible for a birth certificate to be incorrect as births are reg within 6 weeks of the birth

A registrar would know what the year was !

To be frank, I would ignore everything but the birth cert

Derek ........

on all censuses people were asked their AGE on the DATE OF THE CENSUS, while the transcribers of the censuses and other records had to translate the age in years to year of birth.

This is the easy answer to your question, partly because Dorothy was born so early in the year ................. child shown as 7 on a census taken in March or April translates to year of birth = 1894.


That explains the discrepancy on the censuses, but not her mistake (if it was) on other records.

However, maybe it's something about 1894 and 1895 :-D

My grandfather was born on Jan 9 1885, in Lancashire. He told all the family he was born on Dec 25th (no year mentioned), although on enlistment in WW1 in December 1915 he gave his age as 30 years and 350 days ...... which translates to Dec 25 1894.

Even the 1939 Register says 25 December 1884, as well as his death certificate.

I think he originally really did believe that he was born that 2 weeks early (maybe his parents lied to him so they didn't have to buy 2 lots of presents), but he must have discovered otherwise after he served in WW1, because he served in India and what is now modern-day Iraq and apparently had to get his birth certificate for travel documents (his birth certificate was discovered hidden in a drawer when my uncle was clearing the house after his death).


To complicate matters even more, he added an extra year to his age on his marriage certificate in November 1902, claiming he was 19 (his wife claimed she was 20 instead of 19!), thus allegedly born in 1883!




One suggestion for you ................ people sometimes added or deleted years from their actual age if marrying someone who was either much older or younger than themselves. This was intended to make the gap in ages appear much less. Was there a difference in age between her and her husband????


Today, we call them toy boys or trophy wives :-D :-D :-D

If it's the right birth cert, it is most likely that the family forgot the correct year of birth.

My father-in-law always celebrated his birthday on a certain date, and his wife and children all believed that to be his birthday.
It was only when he died that they discovered that he was actually born a fortnight earlier.

my mother was born in 1918 but reg. is 1st quarter 1919

24 Jan 1895 Dorothy May d/o Frank Saunders & Louisa Emma Saunders formerly Bath

1901 recorded as 7 y/o
1911 recorded as 17 y/o
23 Apr 1916 marriage recorded as 22
1939 register birth given as 24 Jan 1894
1990 death birth given as 1894