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Ellen Elizabeth Bell born abt 1882

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ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Feb 2020 16:58

Possible marriage of Leonard:

Marriages Jun 1939 (>99%)
Clarke Leonard Cook Mansfield 7b 203
Cook Annie Clarke Mansfield 7b 203


Leonard A Clarke
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Leonard A Clarke
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 22 Aug 1914
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 5
Residence Place: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
Occupation: Hose Machinist
Schedule Number: 57
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: RNJR
Registration district: 428-1
Inferred Spouse: Annie Clarke
Household Members:
Name
Leonard A Clarke
Annie Clarke



Leonard Allcock Clarke
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Leonard Allcock Clarke
Death Age: 80
Birth Date: 22 Aug 1914
Registration Date: Feb 1995
Registration district: Mansfield
Inferred County: Nottinghamshire
Register Number: A15D
District and Subdistrict: 6871A
Entry Number: 66

Marked As Answer Marked as Answered

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 16:36

Thank you everyone, I think between us all the obvious items for Ellen Elizabeth have been traced. I've found another child born 1914 on the GRO index, so some more work to do on the family. Note to self to take the blinkers off I seem to have a blind spot sometimes when it comes to possible illegitimate births!

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Feb 2020 16:29

That would explain the muddle in 1911.
She wouldn't know if she was supposed to enter herself as head, or James, when he wasn't there on census night.


Later children probably Leonard A, in 1914, and Alan A in 1923, both in Mansfield .

Alan A is with Ellen in 1939.

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 16:26

ArgyllGran, I don't think they were separated other than by James working elsewhere in 1911, they had at least one more child after 1911 - still researching that.

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 16:21

ArgyllGran - I think you're right, it fits. One of her sister's did the same thing, acting as housekeeper to a widower miner with kids. I'm guessing neither of them would have got much more than food and board.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Feb 2020 16:17

Looking at the 1911 census image, I wonder if James and Ellen had separated ?

She seems to have been entered as Mrs JH Clarke, and "married", but the "Mrs" and "married" have both been vigorously crossed out.


ADDED:
On second thoughts, the declaration at the bottom also has "Mrs" crossed out, and just James Henry Clarke left
If they were no longer together, I would have thought the whole name would be obliterated, and her own forenames put in.
Presumably it's Ellen who completed the form.

She also has entered herself as "wife", not "head".
On the whole, I think she's got herself in a muddle as to which bits she changed.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 8 Feb 2020 16:11

I think this is Ellen in 1901, with her name wrongly given as Grey instead of Guy - enumerator's mistake:

Ellen E Grey
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Ellen E Grey
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1882
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Southwell, Nottinghamshire, England
Civil Parish: Mansfield
Ecclesiastical parish: Pleasley Hill St Barnabas
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Mansfield
Sub-registration district: Mansfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 3141
Folio: 174
Page Number: 20
Household schedule number: 112
Household Members:
Name Age
William Revill 36
Fred Revill 10
Alfred Revill 7
Ellen E Grey 19

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:55

Have I think solved the 1911 census issue having looked at both Maddie's census refs. It looks like John Henry was with his father and brother in Pinxton. I've also established that James was a patient in Mapperley Hospital on the 1939 Reg. The missing item is where Ellen was in 1901 as I can't yet find her on the census. I've tracked down the scan of the marriage reg and the other items referred to above, thanks everyone for pointing me to those and identifying the initial issue that Ellen was born Guy not Bell.

Maddie

Maddie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:54

his death ???

JAMES H
Last name CLARKE
Gender Male
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1876
Age 74
Death quarter 1
Death year 1950
District Chesterfield

and possibly 1939 in hospital

Mapperley Hospital Porchester Road,Nottingham, Nottingham C.B., Nottinghamshire, England
James H Clarke ? ? 1877 Male None Married 1 90

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:42

Have just noticed that James isn't listed on the 1939 reg with the family, Ellen isn't listed as a widow.

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:40

Maddie, yes i've just come across this odd 1911 census entry, the place of birth on the top line is right for Ellen. The thought crossed my mind that she might have been a suffragette and dissenting from being included, or they simply made a mess of completing the form.

Maddie

Maddie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:26

WILLIAM HENRY
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1905
Birth quarter 1
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield
County Nottinghamshire

so 1911 ellens details very unclear and crossed thro

MABEL
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1906
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield

72 Portlant St Pleasley Hill Mansfield, Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, England
J H Clarke Wife - Female 29 1882 - Southwell Notts
William H Clarke Son - Male 6 1905 - Pleasley Notts
Mabel Clarke Daughter - Female 4 1907 - Pleasley Notts
Albert Lawrence Clarke Son - Male 0 1911 - Pleasley Notts
Charles Allcocke Boarder Widower Male 44 1867 Coal Miner Hewer Selstone Notts
Charlotte E Allcocke Boarder Single Female 18 1893 Factory Hand Worsted St Normanton Derbyshire

Maddie

Maddie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:14

James ???
1911
Wilson St Pinxton Alfreton, Pinxton, Derbyshire, England
Thomas Clarke Head Widower Male 67 1844 Coal Miner Hewer Pinxton Derbyshire
Arthur Edsor Clarke Son Single Male 23 1888 Coal Miner Hewer Pinxton Derbyshire
James Henry Clarke Son Married Male 35 1876 Coal Miner Hewer Pinxton Derbyshire

father and son are miners on his marriage

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 15:05

Thanks Maddie

Maddie

Maddie Report 8 Feb 2020 14:58

ELLEN E
Last name CLARKE
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1882
Age 80
Death quarter 3
Death year 1962
District Mansfield
County Nottinghamshire
Volume 3C
Page 140

Maddie

Maddie Report 8 Feb 2020 14:57

1939
677 Chesterfield Road, Mansfield M.B., Nottinghamshire, England
Ellen E Clarke 28 Mar 1882 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 70 1
Albert L Clarke 19 Jun 1910 Male Colliery Hewer Single 70 2
Alan A Clarke 18 Oct 1923 Male Colliery Haulage Hand Single 70 3

ALBERT L
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1910
Birth quarter 3
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield
County Nottinghamshire

ALAN A
Last name CLARKE
Birth year 1923
Birth quarter 4
Registration month -
Mother's maiden name Guy
District Mansfield

safc

safc Report 8 Feb 2020 14:31

Marriage entry While we have made all efforts to correctly record the information in the original document there may be different interpretations of the written words. If you have access to the original document and believe we have made a mistake you are encouraged to report this to us. Report an Error in this Data Field
(only fields with a value are shown) Value
County Nottinghamshire
Place (Links to more information) Morton
Church name (Links to more information) St Denis
Register type (Links to more information) Transcript
Marriage date 25 Sep 1882
Groom forename George
Groom surname BELL
Groom age Full age
Bride forename Ann Elizabeth
Bride surname GUY
Bride age Full age
Groom father forename George
Groom father surname BELL
Bride father forename John
Bride father surname GUY
Notes Groom signed X.
Transcribed by John Turton
File line number 31

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 14:28

Erika, I had already done that following safc flagging the entry up. As my further comment indicates this is her second illegitimate child. The other one Sarah actually married George Bell's oldest son from his first marriage.

Maddie

Maddie Report 8 Feb 2020 14:27

Name: Ellen Elizabeth Guy
Gender: Female
Marriage Age: 20
Birth Date: 1882
Marriage Date: 17 May 1902
Marriage Place: Pinxton, Derbyshire, England
Search Photos: Search for 'Pinxton' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish

no father named

Julie

Julie Report 8 Feb 2020 14:25

Margaret M, yes, Ann Elizabeth was George's second wife, they married just over 3 mths after he lost his first wife, he had 3 kids 5 and under so would have been desparate for someone to look after them. Ann already had another illegimate daughter living with her parents, although oddly she was still with her grandparents in 1891. I hadn't considered that she might have had a second illegimate child.