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Name: Samuel Joseph Ramsden
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 28 Oct 1861
Birth Place: Barnard Castle
Baptism Date: 18 Nov 1861
Baptism Place: Barnard Castle, Durham, England
Father: Allan Ramsden
Mother: Margaret Ramsden

RAMSDEN, SAMUEL JOSEPH WALKER
GRO Reference: 1861 D Quarter in TEESDALE Volume 10A Page 188

Marriages Jun 1861 (>99%)
RAMSDEN Allan Teesdale 10a 311
WALKER Margaret Teesdale 10a 311

Hi again ArgyllGran, still piecing things together thanks to all your help. Yes I am just trying to see records re the printer, there is a note on the companies house site that shows it liquidated and it says at the bottom Restoration by order... 28th Sept 2016.

I presume that Edwin didn't marry if he was still at Knitsley Lane. You mention a probate notice, have you pointed me to that somewhere?

I mentioned it, but didn't actually post it.

Here it is:


James Edwin Williams
in the England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1995
Name: James Edwin Williams
Death Date: 25 Sep 1981
Death Place: Durham
Probate Date: 23 Feb 1982
Probate Registry: Newcastle-upon-Tyne

The image says:

WILLIAMS, James Edwin, of Fern Cottage, Knitsley Lane, Consett, county Durham, died 25 September 1981. Probate Newcastle-upon-Tyne 23 February. £46243.
822201513P



The fact that he was still in the family home doesn't mean he didn't marry.
There are a number of possible marriages in the Durham area for men named John E Williams.

You can buy a digital copy of his Will here for £1.50:

https://tinyurl.com/y9c4wfab

Instructions here:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Support/Help

Scroll down to "How to get your copy Grant and/or Will".

"You won’t be able to access the grant/will straight after ordering it. You will get an email confirming your order but this will not mean that your copy is ready to be downloaded.
You will get an email when it is ready to download. You will then be able to log in to the system and go to “My Wills” and save each available item to your computer. After you have logged in, the copy will be available for 31 days, so make sure that you save it before then."

Thanks again - do you have the age you mentioned for Helen in the 1939 register - I dont have her age (or birth place)

You can easily find her birth by looking for it on freebmd

Search birth here:
https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

All you need to put in is her name and her mother's maiden surname (Park) - then click "Find".

Marriages Sep 1955 (>99%)
LANDER John W WILLIAMS Durham N.W. 1a 1627
WILLIAMS Helen LANDER Durham N.W. 1a 1627

They were at an address in Essex in 2003-4, and may still be living.

That Essex house was sold in 2009, per mouseprice.com

Helen was shown on 1939, so, unless it’s an error, she should be deceased

??????????

First name(s) Helen
Last name Lander
Death year 2015
Death date 23 Dec 2015
Probate year 2016
Probate date 19 Feb 2016
Residence town -
Registry Ipswich
County Suffolk
Country England
Document type Grant and will


Title Ms
First name(s) Helen
Last name Lander
Sex Female
Age 82
Birth year 1933
Birth date 00/00/1933
Death year 2015
Death date 23 Dec 2015
Residence Bures
Area Colchester

Thanks for the Helen Lander - still haven't followed that yet, puzzling over a few other things although still trying to bring the Ramsden side more up to date and struggling.

I currently have 3 different birth dates for Allan Ramsden - (currently using 1837). This one seems to be the most accurate, although his newspaper obituary of 1928 reflects a date of 1842 the family content seems most accurate with 1837. Yet I also have one showing 1851, is it common to find this sort of 'error'?

The one I am wrestling with t the moment is Florence Annie Ramsden (1903) I have just found her at age 17 married to Robert Clark (1897) but can find no record of her or any family after that. I know she was around in the early 50's as I met her briefly as a boy when visiting her sister my gran (Isabella Figtree) in Barnsley - any ideas?

Just found Allan's father Joseph Ramsden 1815 ! :)

Florence's husband's correct surname

Marriages Mar 1920 (>99%)
Clarke Robert Ramsden Rotherham 9c 1153
Ramsden Florence A Clarke Rotherham 9c 1153


Why do you think that's 'your' Florence? Do you have the cert?

There's a woman of the same name born in Rotherham in 1898, which could just as easily be the one who married Clarke - in Rotherham

This is your Florence's baptism - in 1911, she was in Lancaster

Name: Florence Annie Ramsden
Age: 0
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 20 Dec 1902
Baptism Date: 11 Feb 1903
Baptism Place: Barnsley, St John the Baptist, Yorkshire, England
Father: Samuel Joseph Ramsden
Mother: Sarah Annie Ramsden

First name(s) Florence A
Last name Ramsden
Birth year 1902
Birth date 20 Dec 1902
Event year 1908
School name Skerton County Primary School
Town Skerton
County Lancashire
Country England
Parent name(s) Samuel
Book type Admissions

There is a Florence A Clarke married to Robert Clarke b 1897 in the 1939 register b 5/11/1898 which fits with a FREEBMD birth in Dec qtr 1898 of a Florence Annie Ramsden. Father Henry Ramsden occ miner (I think)

On the image of the 1920 marriage to Robert Clarke on 27/3/1920 she is age 21 not 17. Where did you get the 17 from please?

LANDER, HELEN 1933
GRO Reference: DOR Q1/2016 in Essex (463-1A) Entry Number 513118358

1939
John J R Williams 24 Nov 1896 Male Newspaper Proprietor Master Printer Married 339 1
Sarah E Williams 08 Oct 1896 Female Shop Manageress Married 339 2
James E Williams 19 Nov 1921 Male Apprentice Printer Single 339 3
Helen Lander (Williams) 26 Jun 1933 Female At School Single 339 4

First name(s) Florence Annie
Last name Ramsden
Year 1931
Season -
Polling district or place Lancaster
Constituency P C of Lancashire, Lancaster Division
Constituency in full Parliamentary County of Lancashire, Lancaster Division
County Lancashire
Country England
Register type Parliamentary County

STILL with her parents!!

Address No 2, Myndon Street, Skerton (Same address as 1911)

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1931
Surname Forename(s) Age or Date of Birth Year Sub-District Registers At Reference
RAMSDEN Sarah Annie 64 1931 Lancaster Preston LAN/126/85

IF she married, this COULD be her

Marriages Jun 1935 (>99%)

Ramsden Florence A Watson Barnsley 9c 695
Watson George A Ramsden Barnsley 9c 695

and a son - name fits with antecedents in family

Births Mar 1936 (>99%)
WATSON Allan A Ramsden Barnsley 9c 312

1939

Birth year isn't clear on the image, and could be 1902

Agreed, the date of 25th isn't correct for 'your' Florence, so you will need to check further

George Andrew Watson 08 Oct 1903 Male Scrap Iron & Stich Labourer (H? Married 67 1
Florence Annie Watson 25 Dec 1907 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 67 2
One closed record

Re Allan Ramsden's birth - differences in age on different censuses are common. It's usually human error in hearing or writing the person's age. People often lied about their age, too, though I don't think that's the case with Allan.

Also, the age on a death cert depends on what the informant says - it's not necessarily accurate.

1911 census says he was born in Church Auston, Derbyshire, 1842.
1901 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1837.
1891 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1842.
1881 says Auston, Yorkshire, 1851
1871 says Austin, Durham, 1842
1861 says Auston, 1842
1851 says Church Auston, Yorkshire, 1842.

His parents were Joseph and Jane


Can't find Church Auston definitively on a Google search.
Could be "Aston cum Aughton" near Rotherham, or Aston on Trent, Derbyshire.
There's also a place called Church Aston in Shropshire.

This is the family in 1851:

Allan Ramsden
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Allan Ramsden
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Son
Father's name: Joseph Ramsden
Mother's name: Jane Ramsden
Gender: Male
Where born: Church Auston, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Cockfield
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Durham
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: Teesdale
Sub-registration district: Staindrop
ED, institution, or vessel: 1b
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 1
Piece: 2387
Folio: 14
Page Number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Ramsden 36 - Bramley, Yorkshire
Jane Ramsden 35 - Whitby, Yorkshire
Allan Ramsden 9
William Ramsden 7 - Church Auston, Yorkshire
Samuel Ramsden 4 - Cockfield, Durham
Mary Ann Ramsden 1 - Cockfield, Durham
Thomas Ramsden 22 - lodger, Bramley, Yorkshire


so this will be the parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1838 (>99%)
NEWTON Jane Whitby 24 447
RAMSDEN Joseph Whitby 24 447

Allan's birth - 1842 (or maybe late 1841 - you'd need to see the birth cert to be sure):

RAMSDEN, ALLEN mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1842 M Quarter in WORKSOP UNION Volume 15 Page 677

Worksop reg district covers places in parts of West Yorkshire, Derbyshire, and Nottinghamshire.


His siblings:

RAMSDEN, MARY ANN mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1849 S Quarter in TEESDALE UNION Volume 24 Page 367

RAMSDEN, WILLIAM mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1844 J Quarter in WORKSOP Volume 15 Page 666

RAMSDEN, SAMUEL mms NEWTON
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in TEESDALE UNION Volume 24 Page 368