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Many thanks ArgyllGran for your help in this !! Greatly appreciated.

Mary Ann's husband Thomas Montague's death:

Deaths Mar 1900 (>99%)
Montague Thomas 39 Berkhampstead 3a 522


So Bertie and John were Thomas's children from a previous marriage.

Marriages Dec 1892 (>99%)
Montague Thomas Berkhampstead 3a 976
Poulton Elizabeth Berkhampstead 3a 976


Marriages Jun 1879 (>99%)
Kempster Elizabeth Berkhampstead 3a 588
POULTON William Berkhampstead 3a 588


Deaths Mar 1897 (>99%)
Montague Elizabeth 37 Berkhampstead 3a 379

There's no birth of an Ann or Mary Ann Kempster in Berkhampstead RD 1849-53.

There are two Goodridge/Gutteridge births:

Births Mar 1850 (>99%)
Goodridge Ann Berkhampstead 6 501

Births Sep 1851 (>99%)
Goodridge Mary Ann Berkhampstead 6 480

Mary A Montague
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Mary A Montague
Death Age: 65
Birth Date: abt 1851
Registration Date: Oct 1916
[Nov 1916]
[Dec 1916]
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: Berkhampstead
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 1032

His brother John in 1911:

John Montague
in the 1911 England Census
Name: John Montague
Age in 1911: 17
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Tring, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Crofton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England
Street address: Court Barn Villas, Lee On The Solent
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Cowman On Farm
Registration district: Fareham
Registration District Number: 92
Sub-registration district: Titchfield
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Piece: 5673

Looks like Bertie / Alfred Herbert in 1911 - he's a tailor in 1939:

Herbert Montague
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Herbert Montague
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Male
Birth Place: HERTFORDSHIRE, Hertford, England
Civil Parish: St Giles in the Fields and Bloomsbury St George
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: Boys Home, 164A Shaftesbury Ave W C
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Tailor Apprentice <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Registration district: St Giles
Registration District Number: 12
Sub-registration district: St Giles and Bloomsbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Piece: 1178

Possibly Minnie in 1911:

M Gascoine
in the 1911 England Census
Name: M Gascoine
Age in 1911: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation to Head: Patient
Gender: Female
Birth Place: N K
Civil Parish: St Peter Rural
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address: Hertfordshire County Asylum, Hill End, St Albans
Marital status: Single
Registration district: St Albans
Registration District Number: 139
Sub-registration district: St Albans
ED, institution, or vessel: 20-21
Piece: 7686


Minnie Gascoin
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Minnie Gascoin
Death Age: 52
Birth Date: abt 1886
Registration Date: Apr 1938
[May 1938]
[Jun 1938]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: St Albans
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 1069

???

MONTAGUE, BERTIE mms KEMPSTER
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in BERKHAMSTED Volume 03A Page 609



Bertie Montague
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Bertie Montague
Age: 5
Estimated birth year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Mother: Mary A Montague
Birth Place: Tring, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Tring
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Paul
Town: Tring
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Berkhampstead
Sub-registration district: Tring
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors:
Piece: 1331
Folio: 83
Page Number: 7
Household schedule number: 46
Household Members:
Name Age
Mary A Montague 48 - widow, Tring
Thomas Gascoine 18 - son, groom, Tring
Minnie Gascoine 14 - daughter, Tring
John Montague 8 - son, Tring
Bertie Montague 5

MONTAGUE, JOHN THOMAS mms KEMPSTER
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in BERKHAMSTED Volume 03A Page 662


Mary Ann Montague
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Mary Ann Montague
Age in 1911: 59
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Mother
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Tring, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Tring Rural
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address: 14 Akeman Street, Tring, Hertfordshire
Marital status: Widow
Occupation: Housekeeper
Registration district: Berkhampstead
Registration District Number: 142
Sub-registration district: Tring
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Piece: 7783
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Gascoin 28
Mary Ann Montague 59


Marriages Mar 1899 (>99%)
Gascoin Mary Ann Berkhampstead 3a 758
MONTAGUE Thomas Berkhampstead 3a 758



??? Not sure if this is the same family in 1881 and 1891 - children's mms is Gutteridge/Goodridge.
However, the births match the Gascoine children in 1901 census.:


EDIT:
YES - see post at 13:53 -
Bertie and John were Mary Ann's stepsons.




Ann Garrone
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Ann Garrone
[Ann Gascoin]
Gender: Female
Age: 40
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1851
Spouse: Jesse Garrone
Child: William Garrone
Mary Garrone
Jesse Garrone
John Garrone
Thomas Garrone
Minnie Garrone
Birth Place: Tring, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Tring
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter and St Paul
Residence Place: Tring, Tring, Hertfordshire, England
Registration district: Berkhampstead
Sub registration district: Tring
ED, Institution or Vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Piece: 1127
Folio: 81
Household Members:
Name Age
Jesse Garrone 61
Ann Garrone 40
William Garrone 19
Mary Garrone 16
Jesse Garrone 14
John Garrone 10
Thomas Garrone 8
Minnie Garrone 4


Ann Gascoine
in the 1881 England Census
Name: Ann Gascoine
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: Jesse Gascoine
Gender: Female
Where born: Tring, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Tring
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address: 54 Brook St
Marital status: Married
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Berkhampstead
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors:
Piece: 1449
Folio: 30
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
Jesse Gascoine 57
Ann Gascoine 30
William Gascoine 9
Mary Gascoine 6
Jesse Gascoine 4
John Gascoine
Emma Gascoine 20


The Gascoine children's mms is Gutteridge/Goodridge..
Just three posted here as an example:

GASKIN, MARY mms GOODRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1874 D Quarter in BERKHAMPSTEAD Volume 03A Page 448

GASCOIN, JESSE mms GOODRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1876 D Quarter in BERKHAMPSTEAD Volume 03A Page 453

GASCOIN, MINNIE KATE ms GOODRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in BERKHAMSTED Volume 03A Page 612


Jesse Gascoin's marriage:

Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
GASKIN Jesse Berkhampstead 3a 427
Gutteridge Mary Ann Berkhampstead 3a 427


And his death:

Jesse Gascoin
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Jesse Gascoin
Estimated birth year: abt 1830
Registration Year: 1894
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 64
Registration district: Berkhamstead
Inferred County: Hertfordshire
Volume: 3a
Page: 314

Thanks Alviegal !!

The son's death.

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) WILLIAM HERBERT
Last name MONTAGUE
Gender Male
Birth day 5
Birth month 7
Birth year 1921
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 1986
District Watford
Register number 786
County Hertfordshire
Volume 10
Page 626

Alfred's second wife Dorothy marries one of the lodgers from the 1939 register pretty quickly after his death.

Marriages Jun 1972 (>99%)
DEWS Louise MACBRYDE Conway 8a 338 Scan available - click to view
MCBRYDE Simon W DEWS Conway 8a 338 Scan available - click to view
>>MCTIER James H MONTAGUE Conway 8a 338 Scan available - click to view
>>MONTAGUE Dorothy K MCTIER Conway 8a 338


and her death.

DOROTHY KATE
Last name MCTIER
Gender Female
Birth day 30
Birth month 6
Birth year 1895
Age -
Death quarter 3
Death year 1986
District Colwyn
Register number 786
County Denbighshire
Volume 24
Page 90

No, sorry, I don't. This s a friend's tree. Trying to do what I can for her without the certificates.

All I have to go on is that she remembers the name of 'Bert' or 'Bertie' associated with an old photo (WW1 army?) I think. She seems to believe that the family has a link with Watford and area for a few generations but is unsure.

Sketchy details I know....

hi
do you have his marriage cert for his fathers name and occupation

That looks like him, thanks safc !!

Record Transcription:
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007


Alfred Montague
Regimental & service records Record
Great Britain
Year of service: 1914
Alfred Montague
Regimental & service records Record
Great Britain
Year of service: 1914
Albert H Montague
Medal rolls and honours Record
Great Britain
Year of service: 1914
First name(s) ALFRED HERBERT
Last name MONTAGUE
Gender Male
Birth day 22
Birth month 9
Birth year 1895
Age -
Death quarter 1
Death year 1972
District Aled
County Denbighshire
Volume 8A
Page 2107
Country Wales
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, Wales

????

1939 Register logo
The National Archives logo
Alfred H Montague's life in 1939
9 Maythorne Close, Watford M.B., Hertfordshire, England

Alfred Montague
Civil Deaths & Burials Record
Middlesex, England
Year of death: 1966
Montague household
(4 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Alfred H Montague 22 Sep 1895 Male Tailor Married 87 1
Dorothy K McTier (Montague) 30 Jun 1895 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 87 2
William C McTier 05 Jul 1895 Male Clerk Knitted U D Council Single 87 3
James H McTier 27 Aug 1901 Male

Thanks Alviegal & ArgyllGran.

All I got to find now is something on Ivy's husband Alfred - he seems just as elusive!!

Re Ivy's birth surname of Williams -

an alternative scenario to Annie's possible fling with Mr Williams could be that Frank might have been using an alias for a short time, in view of his criminal history.

Don't know what his crime was!

1939 for Annie.

73 Elfrida Road, Watford M.B., Hertfordshire, England

Keel household
(4 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule Sub Number
Annie M Keel 16 May 1868 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Widowed 295 1
William J Goodson 27 Mar 1884 Male Jewellers Porter Married 295 2
Bessie M Goodson 16 Mar 1890 Female Daily Work Domestic (Paid) Married 295 3


and her death.

England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007

First name(s) ANNIE M
Last name KEEL
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1869
Age 81
Death quarter 2
Death year 1950
District Watford
County Hertfordshire
Volume 4B
Page 210
The record for this person is officially closed.



The 1920 Electoral Register has Annie living on her own.


England & Wales, Electoral Registers 1920-1932

Annie M Keel
1939 Register
Hertfordshire, England
Year of census: 1939
First name(s) Annie Maria
Last name Keel
Year 1920
Season Autumn
Polling district or place Queen's
Constituency P C of Hertfordshire, Watford Division

Thanks Argyll !!