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Hello, I'm trying to find any information I can about my paternal grandfather, Frederick George Ward. He was born in late 1877 or 1878, and died in 1944.

I can't find an exact birth record for him, as back then the mother's maiden name was not listed in the records. I can see about half a dozen births that might be his, and I'm wondering how I might go about getting more information.

He married my grandmother Dorothy Morgan in Cranbrook in 1915. Would the marriage certificate have information such as his DOB?

I also know that he served in WWI, and that he worked for the Postal Service in 1920.

Any guidance is much appreciated. Cheers!

This is the first time I've posted on Genes for a long time. If you know the mother's maiden name then these are all the births (including mother's maiden name) for Frederick George Ward in 1877 +/- 2 years from the GRO site:-

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE JOHNSON
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 706
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE SPAULL
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in ERPINGHAM Volume 04B Page 68
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE PLUMB
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in NORTHAMPTON UNION Volume 03B Page 65
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE HYSON
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 824
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE FULLER
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in CAMBRIDGE Volume 03B Page 540
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE BLAY
GRO Reference: 1876 J Quarter in SHOREDITCH Volume 01C Page 144
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1876 S Quarter in TENDRING Volume 04A Page 317
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE ASHFORD
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 227
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE HOPKINS
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 179
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE ROGERS
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 272
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE SUMMERFIELD
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 589
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE HALE
GRO Reference: 1877 D Quarter in THIRSK Volume 09D Page 436
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE OSMOTHERLY
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in OF LEXDEN & WINSTREE Volume 04A Page 395
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE -
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in SCARBOROUGH Volume 09D Page 364
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE DIMMER
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in PORTSEA ISLAND Volume 02B Page 490
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE PECK
GRO Reference: 1878 J Quarter in THETFORD UNION Volume 04B Page 414
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE EVERITT
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in HEADINGTON Volume 03A Page 681
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE SAMUEL BROWN
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 401
WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE SWAN BUTLER
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 367

Hope this helps.

Kath. x

as you know his marriage 1915
buy his marriage cert for his fathers name age where hes living and witnesses etc

According to the 1921 census form, which he completed himself, he was born c1885.

Frederick George Ward
in the 1921 England Census
Name Frederick George Ward
Gender Male
Marital Status Married
Age 35 Years 10 Months
Relation to Head Head
Estimated Birth Year 1885
Birth Place Highgate, London, England
Residence Date 1921
Residence Street Address 57 Ravensbource Rd, Bromley
Residence Place Bromley, Kent, England
Occupation Clerk General Post Office
Occupation Code 800/6
Employer Government
Employer Code 710
Place of Work A F D, G P O London
Number of Children Under 16 2
Inhabited Y
Ward Town
Parliamentary Division Bromley Pb
Registration District Bromley
Registration District Number 42
Sub registration district Bromley
Sub Registration District Number 1
Respondent Mr Ward
Enumeration District Name Bromley Mb
Enumeration District 16
Schedule 69
Schedule Type Code E
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Frederick George Ward 35 Years 10 Months Head
Dorothy Louisa Ward 27 Years 2 Months Wife
Dorothy Mary Ward 4 Years 9 Months Daughter
Frederick Peter Ward 8 Months Son


But if this is his death, he was apparently born c1877-78, as you say - but it depends on what the informant believed to be true


Deaths Mar 1945 (>99%)
Ward Frederick G 67 Maldon 4a 1124

Posting for our reference:


Frederick George Ward
in the UK, British Army World War I Service Records, 1914-1920
Name Frederick George Ward
Gender Male
Enlistment Age 30
Birth Date abt 1885
Marriage Date 14 Dec 1918
Marriage Place S Nicholus Church Sandhurst
Document Date 1915
Residence Place 119 Linden Grove, Nunhead SE
Military Date 1915
Regimental Number 6187
Regiment Name London Regiment
Number of Images 5
Form Title Attestation
Family Members (Name) Relation to Soldier
Frederick George Ward
Dorothy Louise Morgan Spouse

On that, he said his age was 30 years, 3 months, as at 8 December 1915., which again means he was born in 1885 - approx September.

At that time he was a "marble mason manager".

This would be his birth, if he was indeed born approx Sept 1885:

WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE mmn PAINE
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 126

A brother ??

WARD, JOHN BANDEL mmn PAINE
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in PANCRAS Volume 01B Page 173

Frederick G Ward
in the 1891 England Census
Name Frederick G Ward
Gender Male
Age 3 [ age 5 on image - correction submitted]
Relationship Son
Birth Year 1888
Father
Thomas H Ward
Mother
Ellen Ward
Birth Place St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Civil parish St Pancras
Residence Place Highgate, St Pancras, London, England
Registration District Pancras
Sub registration district Kentish Town
ED, Institution or Vessel 43
Neighbors
Piece 139
Folio 60
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas H Ward 29 Head
Ellen Ward 28 Wife
Thomas P Ward 4 Son
Frederick G Ward 3 Son [age 5 on image on Ancestry - correction submitted]
John B Ward 3 Son


Frederick's not with his parents in 1901:

Thomas Hardy Ward
in the 1901 England Census
Name Thomas Hardy Ward
Age 38
Estimated Birth Year abt 1863
Relation to Head Head
Gender Male
Spouse Ellen M Ward
Birth Place London, England
Civil parish Beckenham
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish St George
Town Beckenham
County/Island Kent
Country England
Registration District Bromley
Sub-registration district Beckenham
ED, institution, or vessel 11
Neighbors
Piece 688
Folio 131
Page number 21
Household schedule number 133
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Thomas Hardy Ward 38 Head
Ellen M Ward 38 Wife
John B Ward 13 Son
Margaret C Ward 9 Daughter
Robert J Ward 7 Son
Daniel F Ward 5 Son
Samuel H Ward 2 Son
Nellie M Ward 1 Daughter


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1882 (>99%)
PAINE Nellie Pancras 1b 317
Ward Thomas Hardy Pancras 1b 317


Your grandfather's marriage cert will tell you if Thomas was indeed his father.

Frederick George Ward
Sex: Male
Principal
England and Wales, Census, 1911
Census 1911
Lewisham, London, England, United Kingdom
Birth 1886
London Highgate, London
Marital Status Single
Occupation MONUMENTAL MASON
Age 25
Relationship to Head Boarder

????


Frederick G Ward
Sex: Male
Principal
England and Wales, Census, 1891
Census 1891
Kensington, London, England, United Kingdom
Birth 1885
London, England
Age 6
Relationship to Head Son
Parents Alfred G R Ward, Sarah J Ward
Siblings Ethel J Ward, Edgar F Ward
Frederick G Ward
Sex: Male
Principal
England and Wales, Census, 1901
Census 31 Mar 1901
Kensington, London, England, United Kingdom
Birth 1885
Notting Hill, London
Occupation Errand Boy
Age 16
Relationship to Head Son
Parent Alfred Ward
Siblings Edgar F Ward, Ethel J Ward, Agnes E Ward, Bertie H Ward, Percie H Ward

This is the birth of the Frederick in the 1891 census posted above by Safc:

WARD, FREDERICK GEORGE mmn JOLLIFFE
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in KENSINGTON Volume 01A Page 127

That's too early to be Kathleen's grandfather.
He (K's grandfather) was 35 years 10 months on 19 June 1921 (census date), therefore born about August/Sept 1885.
He was 30 years 3 months on 8/12/1915, again making his birth approx Sept 1885.

Kathleen

You wrote:

"He married my grandmother Dorothy Morgan in Cranbrook in 1915. Would the marriage certificate have information such as his DOB?"

No, marriage certs do not include date of birth..........they do have the names of the fathers of the bride and groom, plus their occupations..............IF the info is known.

Cert. on FMP

Kent Marriages And Banns
Sandhurst, St Nicholas, Kent, England

First name(s) Frederick George
Last name Ward
Birth year 1885
Age 30
Marriage year 1915
Marriage date 14 Dec 1915
Marital status Bachelor
Occupation Mason
Marriage place Sandhurst, St Nicholas
Spouse's first name(s) Dorothy Louise
Spouse's last name Morgan
Spouse's birth year 1894
Spouse's age 21
Spouse's condition Spinster
Father's first name(s) Thomas Hardy
Father's last name Ward
Father's occupation Mason
Spouse's Father First name Henry
Spouse's Father surname Morgan
Spouse's father's occupation Photographic Artest Retired
Licence or banns Banns
First witness Thomas Ward
Second witness Edward James Mastin
Third witness Bestin Blair Morgan
County Kent
Country England
Archive Kent History & Library Centre
Archive reference P321/1/D/3
Register type Marriages
Year range 1901-1919
Page 42
Record set Kent Marriages And Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain


From original - Both signed
FRederick of 119 Linden Grove, Nunhead
Dorothy of Lower Green, Sandhurst
Witnesses - original shows 3rd witness as Bessie Blair Morgan

Banns -

Kent Marriages And Banns
Sandhurst, St Nicholas, Kent, England

First name(s) Frederick George
Last name Ward
Banns year 1915
Banns date 28 Nov 1915
Marriage year 1915
Marital status Bachelor
Marriage place Sandhurst, St Nicholas
Spouse's first name(s) Dorothy Louisa
Spouse's last name Morgan
Spouse's condition Spinster
County Kent
Country England
Archive Kent History & Library Centre
Archive reference P321/1/C/3
Register type Banns
Year range 1910-1923
Page 12
Record set Kent Marriages And Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from England, Great Britain

From original
Frederick of Nunhead, London
Dorothy - OTP (of this parish)
Banns read Nov. 28th, Dec 5 and 12th 1915

His Military Short Service Attestation has a page that is essentially the same as the first page except it has Camberwell 31/08/1885 written in the top left hand corner. Could this be his date of birth. It is 5 pages in. ArgyllGran has already put this up.


First name(s) Frederick George
Residence country England
Last name Ward
Series WO 363
Birth year 1886
Series description Wo 363 - First World War Service Records 'Burnt Documents'
Age 30
Archive The National Archives
Year 1916
Record set British Army Service Records
Service number 6187
Category Military, armed forces & conflict
Regiment London Regiment
Subcategory First World War
Unit / Battalion 21st (Reserve) Battalion

!939 Register?

First name(s) Frederick G
County London
Last name(s) Ward
Country England
Birth date >>31 Aug 1885<<
E. D. letter code AJPK
Birth day 31
Schedule 1
Birth month 8
Schedule sub number 72
Birth year 1885
Archive reference RG101/0232D/004/28
Sex Male
Piece number 0232D
Institutional role Visitor
Item number 4
Marital status Married
Line number 28
Occupation Kitchen Cook Retired
Record set 1939 Register
Address Rowton House, Hammersmith, Hammersmith And Fulham
Category Census, land & surveys
Place Hammersmith
Subcategory Census
Borough / district Hammersmith
Collections from Great Britain, England, Wales


Rowton Houses was a chain of hostels built in London, England, by the Victorian philanthropist Lord Rowton to provide decent accommodation for working men in place of the squalid lodging houses of the time.

George Orwell, in his 1933 book Down and Out in Paris and London, wrote about lodging houses:

The best are the Rowton Houses, where the charge is a shilling, for which you get a cubicle to yourself, and the use of excellent bathrooms. You can also pay half a crown for a 'special', which is practically hotel accommodation. The Rowton Houses are splendid buildings, and the only objection to them is the strict discipline, with rules against cooking, card playing, etc.[1]



From wikipedia

Is this Dorothy?

1939 Register
23 Gensing Road, Hastings, Hastings C.B., Sussex, England
1939 register badge

Household members (2 people)
First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
Dorothy L Ward 01 May 1894 Female Cook Married 48 1

The record for this person is officially closed.



Deaths Dec 1971 (>99%)
WARD Dorothy Louise 1My1894 Hastings 5h 1133

Army records show DOB as 31.8.1885. (Further to Army record posted earlier)

from original - Attested 8.12.15 and placed on Reserve until 18..6.16, before 4 months Home and then mobilised to BEF (British Expeditionary Force) 19.10.16 to 8.4.17 before Home until 25.3.18. Service No. 6187. Remained a Private.

Apparent age on attestation 30 y 3 m. He was 5'71/2" tall, chest girth fully expanded 37", with a 2" expansion

Awarded British War Medal and Victory Medal

Notes in documents from Territorial Force Association of the County of London, Left wing, Centre Staircase (1st floor), Duke of York's Headquarters, Chelsea SW to Officer i/c Records, 4 London Wall buildings, EC 23rd County of London re Pte Ward FG

No. 6187. Second no. 73621. also 703512


- "Kindly note the wife of the above man was removed from -

8.11.1917 - ....... 15 Brooklyn Road, Seaford, Sussex to 34 Brunswick Road, Shoreham by Sea

25.12.1917 - ...... 34 Brunswick Road, Shoreham by Sea to 10 Regent Row, Western Road, Brighton

29.1.1918 - ...... 3H (or 34)Brunswick Road, Shoreham by Sea, Sussex to 173 Queens Road, Peckham, London SE 15

another not dated and very faded .... 4 Heathcote Villas, Heathcote Road, Epsom to 173 Queens Road, Peckham

Not dated - ....8 Paternoster Road, Winchester to 173 Queens Road, Peckham

Discharged under KR's para 392 XV1 - no longer physically fit for war service on 25.3.1918 with weekly pension of 27/6 for 4 weeks, then 13/9 to be reviewed in 48 weeks.

The 1939 register entries as posted by alviegal were ones I'd also noted, but was busy posting the Army records.

The DOB for Frederick does match that in his Army records and Dorothy's would fit an age of 27y 2m in 1921.

Could this therefore be Dorothy's Death registration-

Deaths Dec 1971 (>99%)
WARD Dorothy Louise 1My1894 Hastings 5h 1133

albeit a year out from a possible birth reg. - NO, see EDIT

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
MORGAN, DOROTHY LOUISE DAVIES
GRO Reference: 1895 J Quarter in POPLAR Volume 01C Page 697

EDIT - this birth reg. not on freebmd but is on the GRO site and would fit Dorothy's place of birth as Whitminster, Glos.

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
MORGAN, DOROTHY LOUISE WILLS
GRO Reference: 1894 J Quarter in WHEATENHURST Volume 06A Page 289

So parents marriage -
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1878 (>99%)

MORGAN Henry Barton R. 6a 201
WILLS Bessie Blair Barton R. 6a 201

Dorothy's family.

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census
9, Linden Road, South Hamlet, Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England

Household members (5 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Morgan Head
Married Male 37 1854 Photographer Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales
Bessie B Morgan Wife
Married Female 35 1856 - Bodmin, Cornwall, England
Nellie W Morgan Daughter
Single Female 9 1882 - Leicester, Leicestershire, England
Rose B Morgan Daughter
Single Female 5 1886 - Cardiff
Charles H Morgan Son
Single Male 3 1888 - Cardiff



1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
1, Blandford Road Highclere Terrace, Beckenham, Bromley, Kent, England

Household members (6 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Bessie B Morgan Wife
Married Female 44 1857 - Bodmin, Cornwall, England
Nellie W Morgan Daughter
Single Female 19 1882 Photographer's assistant Leicestershire, England
Bessie F Morgan Daughter
Single Female 17 1884 Cashier (grocer's) Blackpool, Lancashire, England
Charles H Morgan Son
Single Male 13 1888 - Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Gladys M Morgan Daughter
Single Female 8 1893 - Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Dorothy L Morgan Daughter
Single Female 6 1895 - Whitminster, Gloucestershire, England



1911 Census For England & Wales
Lower Green Sandhurst Kent, Sandhurst, Kent, England
View original record
Household members (3 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Morgan Head
Married Male 59 1852 Photographic artist Merthyr S Wales
Bessie Blair Morgan Head
Married Male 59 1852 - Bodmin Cornwall
Charles Henry Morgan Son
Single Male 23 1888 Furnishing salesman Cardiff S Wales

alviegal and I seem to be following the same lines. I'll leave this for the purpose of the notes **
Dorothy 1901 -** note Mother is Bessie B (Witness Dorothy's marriage? and **sister Nellie a Photographers assistant (Father's occupation as per Dorothy's marriage)

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
1, Blandford Road Highclere Terrace, Beckenham, Bromley, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Bessie B Morgan Wife Married Female 44 1857 - Bodmin, Cornwall, England
Nellie W Morgan Daughter Single Female 19 1882 Photographer's assistant Leicestershire, England
Bessie F Morgan Daughter Single Female 17 1884 Cashier (grocer's) Blackpool, Lancashire, England
Charles H Morgan Son Single Male 13 1888 - Cardiff, Glamorganshire, Wales
Gladys M Morgan Daughter Single Female 8 1893 - Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Dorothy L Morgan Daughter Single Female 6 1895 - Whitminster, Gloucestershire, England