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Argyllgran, yes I have this info , this is John Edward with his wife Elizabeth, it is may the daughter who died as a infant and then they had florence, from what I can gather Elizabeth moved to rochdale's with florence and was living there with her sister and family,
John must have then moved back to oldham were he then began a relationship with Mary and had their children, Mary used Elizabeth's name to pass herself off as John's wife,
John & Mary stayed together until his death in 1927 she stayed in the same house until her death

Nothing to do with your query, and I know you said you didn't want any pre-1921 info - but just because I came across it -

The daughter May, whom you mentioned - 1899, not 1898:

JONES, MAY mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 665

Is this her death?

JONES, MAY 0
GRO Reference: 1900 M Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A Page 275


You haven't mentioned a daughter Florence - did you know about her?
(You've done such a lot of research that I expect you do, though you didn't mention her.)


JONES, FLORENCE mmn CROPPER
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A Page 359

Florence Jones
in the Cheshire, England, Select Bishop's Transcripts, 1576-1933
Name Florence Jones
Gender Female
Baptism Date 03 Oct 1900
Baptism Place Coppenhall, Cheshire, England
Father John Edward Jones
Mother Elizabeth Hannah Jones
FHL Film Number 1655597

Address: 73 Peel Street, Coppenhall.

[ADDED: A family called Youde are at that address in 1901.]


Below:
Florence in 1901 with (presumably) her mother, and aunt Jane and family:
[Ancestry's transcription splits this household into two separate ones, but I've put them together here.]

Florence Jones
in the 1901 England Census
Name Florence Jones
Age 8/12
Estimated Birth Year abt 1900
Relation to Head Visitor
Gender Female
Birth Place Crewe, Cheshire, England
Civil parish Rochdale
Search Photos
View blank form
Ecclesiastical parish Spotland St Clement
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration District Rochdale
Sub-registration district Spotland Further Side
ED, institution, or vessel 4
Neighbors View others on page
Piece 3838
Folio 61
Page number 5
Household schedule number 34
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Joseph Grindrod 41 Head
Jane Grindrod 40 Wife [nee Cropper]
Elizabeth A Grindrod 18 Daughter
Edmund Grindrod 17 Son
Mary J Marcas [Mercer] 30 Head [whole line scored out]
Florence Marcas 13 Daughter [ mistranscription - should be Grindrod ]
Richard Cropper 45 Visitor
Elizabeth A Jones 31 Visitor
Florence Jones 8/12 Visitor

This the family with things changed again,

John e Jones was born 1874/5

Elizabeth who was really Mary was born 1876 in kilbeggan, Ireland, I have a copy of her birth cert,

Never going to get any further with this but thank you for replying ,

Mary still lived on cardinal st when she died in 1960

Now fmp is up and running, here is the 1921.

1921 Census Of England & Wales
23, Cardinal Street, Oldham, Lancashire, England

Household members (7 people)
First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
John E Jones Head
Male 1871 49 Carnarvon, Wales Plate Moulder As A Lees, Cotton Mach Mkrs
E Jones Wife
Male 1902 18 Ireland - -
John E Jones Son
Male 1902 18 Oldham, Lancashire, England Plate Moulder As A Lees, Cotton Mach Mkrs
Arthur Jones Son
Male 1907 14 Oldham, Lancashire, England Precer Cotton Male Greenasing Mill, Cotton Sprp
Rase Jones Daughter
Female 1909 11 Oldham, Lancashire, England - -
Leonard Jones Son
Male 1914 7 Oldham, Lancashire, England - -
Norman Jones Son
Male 1915 5 Oldham, Lancashire, England - -

His wife is 46yrs 8 months old and female so will put in corrections.

??????????

First name(s) John Edward
Place Llanbedr Dyffryn Clwyd
Last name Jones
County Denbighshire
Birth year 1875
Country Wales
Birth date ? ? 1875
Page 84
Baptism year 1875
Record set Denbighshire Baptisms
Baptism date 26 Jan 1875
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Father's first name(s) -
Subcategory Parish Baptisms
Mother's first name(s) Ann
Collections from Wales, Great Britain
Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Something for me to check out tomorrow, thanks for that

On the GRO site, there are 3 illegitimate births for John Edward Jones in 1875 +/- 1yr.

You can download PDF’s of certs for mother’s name……….if you think she would actually have registered his birth. Until 1875, there were no penalties for not doing so.

Will just keep checking every so often in the hope something might pop up,

It doesn’t look too promising, I have to concede, but, never say never ;-) ;-)

Sorry, missed your added info on the 20.04 post :-S

Maiden name explained in post at 20.04

The crazy thing is it was the elusive John Edward himself,

Not looking good for getting any further on my tree hence why I was curious to see if any new details popped up on the 1921 census ,he never made it to the one after that.
Hey ho that is family history for you,

Thanks for taking the time to have a look

Whoever registered the woman’s death told the registrar whatever he or she believed…….he wouldn’t have queried it, so no way of ever knowing, sorry to say

Please answer my query about her alleged ‘maiden’ name

John was 53yrs old when he died,15-05-1927,

As I said earlier he listed his father as owen Jones on his marriage cert but just looking at his mum's death cert she is down as the widow of Howard Jones, no wonder I can't get any further forward,

As for her surname Davies this is what was put on her second son's birth cert, it says mother Ann Jones formerly Davies father's name left blank, I do not think I will be able to go any further as she hasn't been consistent with any details it is hard to believe what she put on the birth cert for thomas

OK…easily done!

Aged 53 at death in AMJ 1927, but that of course is only ‘as known’
Would make his birth first half of 1874 at the latest, but can’t be relied on, unfortunately.

You haven’t said why you think his mother’s birth name was Davies……..it might help if there was some documentation to back that up.

Sorry my mistake on death it was 1927 not 1929

I doubt very much that his mother ever married, unless you can prove otherwise.

I have done hours trailing through the births of John Edward Jones in every place stated on all of the census records there are thousands of them but none with a father named owen Jones as John put on his marriage cert

Yes Ann stated she was born in crewe also wrexham also caenarvon and somewhere else she died in 1905

What have you done to try to find a birth registration for John?

In 1921, he says he is 49yrs 11mths old

The only death in Oldham in 1929 is for a 37-year-old

Thank you ErikaH,
Yes this is them,John and Mary never married but she used his legal wife's name Elizabeth when it suited her for example when he went away in ww1 so she could get money for support with the children etc.
She lived until 1960 and died in oldham, no fresh details to start a search as I have been researching him for about 15 year's now.

I think his mum was also unmarried as I cannot find a marriage for her Ann Davies and a owen Jones in the right time frame

Thank you