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Good afternoon

I am looking for the birth of Elizabeth Ann Blackwell, who married Joseph Farrimond in Wigan in 1919. No father is given on the marriage certificate.

I have them on the 1921 census and 1939 register, where she gives her date of birth as 24/5/1896. They are still in Wigan.

Working backwards, on the 1911 census, I am looking at Elizabeth Ann Blackwell, adopted daughter and George Blackwell, adopted son of William and Amelia Jane Dearden. Both Elizabeth and George are stated to have been born in Salford.

On the 1901, George Blackwell is with this same family, with the spelling of Durden, not Dearden. No sign of Elizabeth Ann.

I have been on GRO, Lancs BMD, Lancs OPC but simply cannot find Elizabeth Ann anywhere.

Looking for a link with the Dearden (Durden) name, I found a marriage between a John Henry Blackwell and an Elizabeth Ann Durden in 1883, but haven't gone far with that.

Knowing how good some of you are at spotting the obvious, I thought I would pass it over for perusal, please. Many thanks. Cx

For our reference:

Elizabeth Ann Durden
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name Elizabeth Ann Durden
Gender Female
Marriage Age 23
Event Type Marriage
Birth Year abt 1860
Marriage Date 1 Jul 1883
Marriage Place Hulme, St Michael, Manchester, England
Parish as it Appears S Michael Hulme
Father Joseph Durden [ deceased, joiner ]
Spouse John Henry Blackwell [ marble lmason ]
Reference Number M320/7/2/2
Item Number 5
Archive Roll 818

Witnesses: Harry Thompson and Fanny Blackwell

John's address: 47 Lavender Street.
Elizabeth's address: 34 Victoria Street

However, I don't see them in 1891 so far.

John Henry in 1881 - not that that's any help - but I can't see Elizabeth Ann so far:

John Blackwell
in the 1881 England Census
Name John Blackwell
Age 22
Estimated Birth Year abt 1859
Relationship to Head Son
Mother Ann Blackwell
Gender Male
Where born Hulme, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Hulme
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 47 Lavender St
Occupation Marble Mason
Registration District Chorlton
ED, institution, or vessel 31
Neighbors
Piece 3929
Folio 94
Page number 23
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Ann Blackwell 63 Head
John Blackwell 22 Son

George's birth - so could be the child of John Henry and Elizabeth Ann:

BLACKWELL, GEORGE mmn DURDEN
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 154

When George married Ethel Brice in 1915, at Platt Bridge, he also didn't name a father.


Ancestry suggests this is John Henry's death - in which case, George and Elizabeth junior couldn't have been his children, but George could still have been registered as Blackwell, as that was his mother's name.

BLACKWELL, JOHN HENRY 25
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 574

William and Amelia's marriage;

William Durden
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name William Durden
Gender Male
Marriage Age 21
Event Type Marriage
Birth Year abt 1855
Marriage Date 17 Apr 1876
Marriage Place Deane, St Mary, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears Deane
Father
Joseph Durden [labourer *******]
Spouse
Amelia Nuttall
Reference Number GB127.L85/1/3/18

??
DURDEN, WILLIAM mmn TRAYNOR
GRO Reference: 1855 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 216


Marriages Sep 1854 (>99%)
Durden Joseph Manchester 8d 473
Trayner Elizabeth Manchester 8d 473


However, I don't see the birth of a sister Elizabeth Ann, who might have gone on to marry John Henry Blackwell.

???
HYDE, ELIZABETH ANN mmn BLACKWELL
GRO Reference: 1896 S Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 132


Elizabeth Ann Hyde
in the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
Name Elizabeth Ann Hyde
Gender Female
Baptism Date 12 May 1897
Baptism Place England, Lancashire, Salford
Father Peter Hyde
Mother Elizabeth Ann
FHL Film Number 1786461
Reference ID p43


There is no record of a Hyde/Blackwell marriage.
Could the mother be Elizabeth Ann Blackwell, nee Durden ???

ADDED:

but maybe this is that child's death:

Deaths Sep 1897 (>99%)
Hyde Elizabeth Ann 1 Salford 8d 39

George is ‘Nephew’ in 1901………

The child baptised in 1897 was born 23rd March1894, according to LanOPC.

Father’s occupation: Corporation Labourer. Address: 24, Manchester Street

Not at that address in 1901, but there are people named Hyde there in 1891

Thank you. There seem to be endless possibilities at the moment. I am taking it all on board - so to speak. :-)

Finding the woman who married JHB after the 1883 marriage may be the most useful line of research - so far, I haven’t had any luck :-( :-(

Or even before the 1883 marriage, with father Joseph!

???

Elizabeth Blackwell
in the 1891 England Census
Name Elizabeth Blackwell
Gender Female
Age 27
Relationship Boarder
Birth Year 1864
Birth Place Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Salford
Residence Place Salford, Lancashire, England
Registration District Salford
Sub registration district Regent Road
ED, Institution or Vessel 3
Neighbors
Piece 3219
Folio 73
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Joseph Holdsworth 36 Head
Elizabeth A Holdsworth 35 Wife
Benjamin Holdsworth 17 Son
Thomas Holdsworth 9 Son
William Holdsworth 7 Son
John Martin 28 Boarder
Margaret Martin 27 Boarder
Jane Martin 2 Boarder
Thomas Martin 6 Weeks Boarder
Elizabeth Blackwell 27 Boarder - widow, domestic servant
George Hyde 15 Nephew - Aston-under-Lyne, striker smith

Address: 5 Irwell Terrace

Following up George Hyde in case it leads anywhere:

??
HYDE, GEORGE mmn BIRD
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in ASHTON UNDER LYNE Volume 08D Page 465

HYDE, MARY ELIZABETH mmn BIRD
GRO Reference: 1878 M Quarter in ASHTON UNDER LYNE Volume 08D Page 469

HYDE, JOHN mmn BIRD
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in ASHTON-UNDER-LYNE Volume 08D Page 448


Parents' marriage:

Marriages Mar 1872 (>99%)
Bird Sarah Ann Manchester 8d 707
HYDE Peter Manchester 8d 707 <<<<<<<



Peter Hyde
in the Lancashire, England, Catholic Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1762-1913
Name Peter Hyde
Gender Male
Record Type Marriage
Marriage Date 16 Feb 1872
Marriage Place Lancashire, England
Spouse Sarah A Bird

Witnesses: Michael and Margaret Coffey

Another child;

HYDE, PETER mmn BIRD
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 147


Petrus Hyde
in the Lancashire, England, Catholic Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1762-1913
Name Petrus Hyde
Gender Male
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Baptism
Birth Date 21 Dec 1885
Baptism Date 5 Feb 1886
Baptism Church Cathedrali St Joannis Evangelistae
Baptism Place Salford, Lancashire, England
Diocese Salford
Father Petri Hyde
Mother Sarah Anna Bird


Deaths Jun 1886 (>99%)
HYDE Peter 0 Salford 8d 96


And another:

HYDE, WINIFRED mmn BIRD
GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 129

Winifrida Hyde
in the Lancashire, England, Catholic Registers of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1762-1913
Name Winifrida Hyde
Gender Female
Baptism Age 0
Record Type Baptism
Birth Date 8 Oct 1883
Baptism Date 29 Feb 1884
Baptism Church St. Wilfrid's
Baptism Place Hulme, Lancashire, England
Diocese Salford
Father Petri Hyde
Mother Sarah Annae Hyde

Peter Hyde
in the 1881 England Census
Name Peter Hyde
Age 34
Estimated Birth Year abt 1847
Relationship to Head Boarder
Gender Male
Where born Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish Salford
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Street Address 12 Warburton St
Marital Status Married
Occupation Carder <<<<<<<<<<
Registration District Salford
Sub registration district Regent Road
ED, institution, or vessel 78
Neighbors
Piece 3976
Folio 8
Page number 14
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Eliza Daniels 54 Head
George Daniels 5 Son
John Daniels 1 Son
Sarah Ann Hyde 28 Boarder - Manchester
Peter Hyde 34 Boarder

Sorry for the delay - I thought the replies had finished on here. :-)

There has been a development.
It turns out that JHB died in 1884, a year after his marriage. Elizabeth Snr went on to have George in 1889—no father was named—and Elizabeth Jnr was born in 1896 under the father's name of Peter Hyde!!
However, I cannot find a marriage between said Peter Hyde and Elizabeth Snr. Maybe it was an illicit arrangement??

Very grateful as usual. Cx

George Blackwell's birth, with mmn Durden, was posted earlier.

This looks like his baptism, with invented father:

George Blackwell
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915
Name George Blackwell
Baptism Date 24 Nov 1889
Baptism Place Salford, St Phillip, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears St Philips Salford
Father George Blackwell
Mother Elizabeth Blackwell
Item Number 4
Archive Roll 955

Address: 24 Godsall Lane

William Durden/Dearden in 1871??? Also adopted??


William Dearden
Name William Dearden
Age 15
Estimated Birth Year 1856
Relation Adopted Son
Gender Male
Where born Manchester
Civil parish Worsely
Ecclesiastical parish Worsley St Paul
Town Walkden
County/Island Lancashire
Country England
Registration District Barton Upon Irwell
Sub-registration district Worsley
ED, institution, or vessel 3
Household schedule number 91
Piece 3965
Folio 76
Page number 18
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Frank Metcalfe 32 Head
Catherine Metcalfe 31 Wife
John Metcalfe 5 Son
William Metcalfe 3 Son
Sarah Metcalfe 1 Daughter
James Finley 15 Adopted Son
William Dearden 15 Adopted Son

Cynthia -
You say,
"There has been a development.
It turns out that JHB died in 1884, a year after his marriage. Elizabeth Snr went on to have George in 1889—no father was named—and Elizabeth Jnr was born in 1896 under the father's name of Peter Hyde!!
However, I cannot find a marriage between said Peter Hyde and Elizabeth Snr. Maybe it was an illicit arrangement??"


Are you assuming that from suggestions posted earlier, or has the "development" come from some other source?

If Peter Hyde who married Sarah Ann was Elizabeth's father, presumably he had an affair with her mother.
It also presumes that her mother gave her married name as her maiden name when the birth was registered..

Did you note ErikaH's mention that the 1897 baptism says that the child Elizabeth was born 23/3/1894 ?

Also, if the child born in 1896 is the one who died in 1897, she obviously can't be the one living with William and Amelia Dearden.

You need the birth and death certs to be sure of the facts.