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Ellizabeth Sutherland was my grandmother.
She married Francesco Rossi and they had two children.She was then widowed and went on to marry Henry Edward Wilkens(d.o.b 1872- died 1914 HMS Cressy) and had five children. Their last known address was White Street Southall.
I think she was born around 1872-1875.
As as child i was never given any information on her and only found out a few years ago that she might have been illegitimate and has connections with the aristocracy.
Any help would be greatly received.
Many Thanks
Sharon

heres her marriage to Henry.that cert should show a dad if there was one.

Marriages Jun 1903 (>99%)
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Rossi Elizabeth Amelia Lambeth 1d 706
Wilkens Henry Edward Lambeth 1d 706
Wilkins Henry Edward Lambeth 1d 706

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And the marrige to mr Rossi. his name wasnt Francesco!!

Marriages Dec 1891 (>99%)
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Rossi Augustus Angelo Holborn 1b 1319
Sutherland Elizabeth Amelia Holborn 1b 1319
Sutherland Ellen Holborn 1b 1319

Unless Ellen was her sister & she married a Rossi too will check for the other party on Ancestry.

Hi


Are you sure her husbands name was Francesco just found this?

Marriages Dec 1891

Rossi Augustus Angelo Holborn 1b 1319
Sutherland Elizabeth Amelia Holborn 1b 1319
Sutherland Ellen Holborn 1b 1319


Cheryl

Hi

1901 Census:

Elizabeth Rossi
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1875
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Augusto
Gender: Female
Where born: Peckham, London, England

Civil Parish: St James
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Westminster
Sub-registration district: St James, Westminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 8b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 587

Household Members:
Name Age
Giovanni Bertelli 23
Alfredo Brinati 20
Charles Redman 25
Alice Rossi 11 months
Augusto Rossi 36 Chef and Restuarant Owner
Elizabeth Rossi 26
Elizabeth Rossi 63
Nina Rossi 8
William Rossi 4
Amedeo Santini 34
Lucia Santini 21
William Sutherland 20


Cheryl

No, theres no Francesco Rossi with the same GRO ref.

This looks like her birth:-

Name: Elizabeth Amelia Sutherland
Year of Registration: 1873
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Camberwell (1837-1919)
County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 796

Her name on the marriage to Henry was Elizabeth Amelia.

Kath. x

Hi

Birth:

Augusto Nicola V Rossi
Year of Registration: 1895
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Pancras (1837-1901)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1b
Page: 62

Deaths Sep 1895

Rossi Augusto Nicola V 0 Pancras 1b 47

Looks as if they lost a child

Cheryl

Hi

1891 before his marriage:

Augusto Rossi
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Male
Where born: Jaenza, Italy

Civil Parish: St Mary
Ecclesiastical parish: St Johns
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Waterloo Road First
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page

Household Members:
Name Age
Ellen Buzzi 21
Victor Buzzi 23
Augusto Rossi 25 Chef

Cheryl

This could be Elizabeth (with sister Ellen) on the 1881 census


John SUTHERLAND Head M Male 32 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Porters Warehouseman
Ellen SUTHERLAND Wife M Female 32 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England
Ellen SUTHERLAND Daur Female 11 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Scholar
Elizth. SUTHERLAND Daur Female 8 Peckham, Surrey, England Scholar
Emily SUTHERLAND Daur Female 6 Holborn, Middlesex, England Scholar
William SUTHERLAND Son Male 10 m Holborn, Middlesex, England


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Source Information:
Dwelling 8 Tothill Street
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341074
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0341 / 56
Page Number 39

Peckham is very near Camberwell.

Hope its the right one

Wonder if this is the sister's birth?

Births Jun 1874 (>99%)

Sutherland Ellen Eliza M Camberwell 1d 716

also a possible marriage of parents, not 100% sure though

Marriages Dec 1869 (>99%)
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Easter Mary Lambeth 1d 454
Parker William Lambeth 1d 454
Sutherland John Lambeth 1d 454
WOODS Ellen Lambeth 1d 454


Sharon, are you still around?

She will be back!!. we have been "spoken" on Pm and i have told her theres loads more info been added to her thread.

Shirley

Hi
My name is Dionne and I am Sharons daughter. I am trying to help her with her search for infomation.But I am afraid to say that I to am very new to this.
I have managed to find out from a distant relation that Elizabeth and Augustos did indeed have two children.One of them died but I dont know which one.The childrens names were Alice and William. I do know that my mother wishes to try and find information on Elizabeths parents.
Thankyou so much for your help
Kind regards
Dionne

Thanks for getting back to us. Hope the information is helpful

Selena

Heh Sharon

look what i found!! from the CWGC site

Name: WILKENS, HENRY EDWARD
Initials: H E
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Leading Seaman
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
Unit Text: RFR/CH/B/608). H.M.S. "Cressy."
Age: 42
Date of Death: 22/09/1914
Service No: 144292
Additional information: Son of Thomas and Elizabeth Wilkens, of Soho, London; husband of Elizabeth Amelia Wilkens, of 40, White St., Southall, Middx. Served in the South African War.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 1.
Memorial: CHATHAM NAVAL MEMORIAL

Shirley

Shirley......

Thankyou so very very much for the information on my great grandfather. I have a roll of honour photo of him hanging on my wall. He lost his life on HMS Cressy and myself and mother didnt know a great deal about him. I can now also add his parents to my mothers family tree and hope to find further information on them.
Thankyou
Dionne

I see that a Nina Rossi was also listed as being at the same address as children William and Alice.I know that William and Alice were Elizabeths children.Was Nina also a child of hers? I am only asking this because of Ninas age and I find these listings hard to understand.
Many thanks
Dionne

Dionne
I looked at the 1901 census for you:
Nina, William and Alice are all children of Elizabeth and Augusto. The other people are Augusto's mother Elizabeth. His brother - in law William sutherland and all the other's are boarders. Augusto's occupation is Chef - resteraunt Keeper. I think the rest may be in his employ as Lucia is listed as a dancer! Also Cheryl's posting indicates that it is possible that there may have been another child born Nicola Augusto Rossi - age 0 died in sept 1895.

Hope that helps
Jane

Thankyou jane.
Things a re alot clearer to me now after reading your posting.
I have just ordered Elizabeths birth certificate.
Will keep you posted.
Thanks all
Dionne

Good morning

Would someone please be kind enough to tell me how you get the detailed information from a censes record,i.e home address,people living in the house,ages etc?
When I do a search all I get is the persons name and area they lived in. I have registered to a few sites and paid membership fees but really dont have a clue as to what I should be doing. I thought that whilst I was waiting for Elizabeths birth crtificate I would try and find out some information on her parents.
Many thanks
Dionne

Hi dionne

Theres an online document on the National Archives site. if you put Henry Edward Wilkens in the search box at the top right hand on the first page ,then the first item it finds called Onlne Document ADM 188/203 is him from 1872 when he joined the Navy.
Clickon the Online doc ref and it goes to the next page which gives more detail.I know its him cos his service nos tallies with the one on the memorial . For £3.50 you can get the document
Click on add to basket and follow instructions.

Shirley