Genealogy Chat

I'm looking for information on Charles Edward Allen or Allan. He had his date of birth as 29th November 1897 on 1939 register. He was living in Northern Ireland. He was born in England, possibly London. He was in the army and came to Northern Ireland after the First World War. On his marriage cert, he gives his father's name as Thomas Allen, a motor mechanic in 1921. That is the only bit of information we know about him. We don't know is mother's name. His army paper are not available but one card and they have Charles Allan instead of Allen.
He never talked about his life. He did say he was a cockney. We believe he had at least one brother.
I have searched as much as I can on different sites. I have checked census. I have checked births and cannot find anything so far. His birth date could be wrong as well. The 1939 was the only place we found his birth date. His army papers must have been destroyed. Checking the census for Thomas Allen as a motor mechanic, we found nothing.
Any help would be wonderful as we cannot go back to find ancestors.
Regards
Aspen

I don't see him in 1939. Where was he living then?

When was he living in Northern Ireland?

Who did he marry, and where? Do you mean his marriage was in 1921?

EDIT:
On re-reading your post, I think you mean he married in Ireland ??

In which case, is this his marriage?

Charles Edward Allen
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Marriages Index, 1845-1958
Name: Charles Edward Allen
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun, 1921
Registration district: Londonderry, Ireland
Volume: 2
Page Number: 149
FHL Film Number: 101264
Records on Page:
Name
Matilda Ethel Lynch
Violet Mary Buchanan
Charles Edward Allen
Joseph Henry Cordner

As AG says- just trying to establish a few facts.

Charles marries in Ireland:

Party 1 Name CHARLES ALLEN (full age- Private R.S Victoria Barracks, Belfast)
Father: Thomas Allen (Motor Mechanic)
Party 2 Name MATILDA LYNCH (full age- Ebrington St.)
Father: Joseph Lynch (labourer)
Date of Event 18 June 1921
Witnesses: Robert Lynch & Ann Jane Quinlan
Group Registration ID 1235482
SR District/Reg Area Londonderry

A possibility for Matilda in 1911 ?? Father a railway porter:



Matilda Lynch
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1911
Name: Matilda Lynch
Gender: Female
Age: 7
Birth Year: abt 1904
Relation to Head: Daughter
Residence Date: 2 Apr 1911
Townland/Street: Fountain Hill
District: Londonderry No. 5 Urban
County: Londonderry
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Lynch 34
Elizabeth Lynch 30
Mary Ann Lynch 9
Matilda Lynch 7
James Lynch 4
William Alexander Lynch 2
John Lynch


But if that's her, I can't see her in 1939 with Charles either.

EDIT:
Oh, I see - they were in Ireland, not England/Wales.

All correct on marriage and where he was. I sent to PRONI for the information on the 1939 register. He was living in Londonderry, but probably came to Belfast first.
Regards
Aspen

Alison- you mention one military card where he is listed as Charles Allan- do you have his military number?

Is RS Royal Scots?

" . . . . in August 1920 the 2nd Battalion [ Royal Scots ] was sent to Ireland for service in what would later become the Anglo-Irish War; they would remain there until January 1922. "

https://tinyurl.com/y9yvbnqe



???

Charles Allan
in the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920
Name: Charles Allan
Regiment or Corps: The Royal Scots (Lothian Regiment)
Regimental Number: 2998,250829

The army numbers 14882 and 128378
He was in the Dorset Reg Royal Engineers.

Medal Index Cards Transcription

First name(s) Charles
Last name Allan
Year 1914-20
Service number 14882, 128378
Second service number 128378
Rank Corporal 2nd
Regiment Dorsetshire Regiment, Royal Engineers
Second corps Royal Engineers
Service record Soldier Number: 14882, Rank: Corporal 2nd, Corps: Dorsetshire Regiment
Second service record Soldier Number: 128378, Corps: Royal Engineers
Image link http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/SearchUI/Details?uri=D1001649
Country Great Britain
Medal type British Army Medal Index Cards, 1914-1920
Archive reference WO372/1
Archive reference description Campaign Medal Index Cards and Silver War Badge Cards
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards
Category Military, armed forces & conflict

Dorsetshire Regiment and Royal Engineers are 2 different things. He would have started in the one and transferred to the other.

He was awarded the Victory and British Medals.

If he was still in the Army post 1920 his documents may still be with the MOD. Have look at this site it will explain how you may be able get hold of his documents.

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records

Greyghost
That is interesting about Dorestshire Reg and Royal Engineers. I never knew that. If his records were available post 1920, it is possible that his wife would be next kin. As we know all about his wife, but nothing about his parents at all.

If you're certain the Charles from that medal card is the correct one, then I have found him on the absent voters list and identified his family:

Autumn 1920:
Catherington Polling District. PK
Parish of Blendworth
Allen, Charles Edward- Woodhouse Corpl., Dorsets
County: Hampshire
Country: England

Spring 1921
Catherington Polling District. PK
Parish of Blendworth
Allen, Charles Edward- Woodhouse Discharged
County: Hampshire
Country: England

Autumn 1921:
Catherington Polling District. PK
Parish of Blendworth
Allen, Charles Edward- Woodhouse 128378 pte., Dorsets
County: Hampshire
Country: England
Polling district or place: Petersfield
-------------------------------

On the normal electoral register at same address (Woodhouse):

Spring 1920:
Charles Edward Allen
Henry Albert Allen
Henry Thomas Allen
Selina Allen
--------------------------------

Same family on the census:

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hyde, Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England

Thomas Allen Head Married Male 41 1860 Wiltshire, General Labourer
Emma J Allen Wife Married Female 41 1860 Hampshire, England -
Jane Allen Daughter Single Female 15 1886 Hampshire, England General Domestic
Annie Allen Daughter Single Female 12 1889 Hampshire, England -
Sarah Allen Daughter Single Female 10 1891 Hampshire, England -
Harry A Allen Son Single Male 6 1895 Hampshire, England -
Edith Allen Daughter Single Female 4 1897 Hampshire, England -
Edward C Allen Son Single Male 3 1898 Hampshire, England
------------------------------------

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Frogham Fordingbridge Hampshire, Fordingbridge, Hampshire, England

Henry Thomas Allen Head Married Male 51 1860 Shipton Bellinger Hants Wood Lawyer Journeyman
Selina Allen Wife Married Female 50 1861 Devizes Wilts -
Harry Albert Allen Son Single Male 16 1895 Hyde Hants Cycle Worker Apprentice
Edward Charles Allen Son - Male 13 1898 Hyde Fordingbridge Hants School
Mabel Kate Allen Daughter - Female 8 1903 Hyde Fordingbridge Hants -
Josiah Thomas Allen Son - Male 5 1906 Hyde Fordingbridge Hants -
Doris Gwendoline Smith Stepdaughter - Female 14 1897 London Holloway
----------------------------

Birth of Charles Edward- born Edward Charles (registered first qtr of 1898- fits with a late 1897 November birth):

First name(s) EDWARD CHARLES
Last name ALLEN
Birth year 1898
Birth quarter 1
Mother's last name Parker
District Fordingbridge
County Hampshire
Volume 2B Page 653
------------------------------

His parents married in 1884:

name(s) EMMA JANE PARKER
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1884
Spouse: Thomas Allen,
District Fordingbridge
County Hampshire
Volume 2B
Page number 947
-------------------------------

His father married again in 1909:

name(s) SELINA SMITH
Marriage quarter 2
Marriage year 1909
Spouse: Henry Thomas Allen
District Fordingbridge
County Hampshire
Volume 2B
Page number 1487

But is that the same Charles who married Matilda?

The Charles who married Matilda was apparently in the Royal Scots, and his father was a motor mechanic (1921).

The Charles AQ has found in the censuses was in different regiments, and his father was a labourer (1901) or wood sawyer (1911).

I admit Thomas could have re-trained as a motor mechanic between 1911 and 1921, but I'm inclined to think these are different Charles-es.

AG- although I thought the marriage certificate said private R.S- looking again it is likely to be private R. E.

The details for the Charles I found match the soldier number for the medal card that Aspen said is her chap.

I'm not sure where Aspen got the soldier numbers from or why she's certain that's the correct man- there are other Charles Allen/ Allan in the Royal Engineers.

Having said that- the birth index for the Hampshire chap does fit with the birth date Aspen gave. Buying the birth certificate will confirm if his DOB matches.

Ah! OK!

There is a lot of information there. Charles Allen married 18th June 1921. As I don't know, but guessing, he may have come to Belfast a few years before he married. He met and married, so possibly a year before.
Looking at the marriage cert, I do think it is RE. The other thing I should have mentioned was, he was a despatch rider in WW1.
I have looked at the the Allen in Fordingbridge and haven't rule that one out. If he had little contact or didn't speak of his family, maybe it is linked to the stepmother.
I know Charles birth date 29/11/1897 which is 4Q however it may have been register 1Q 1898.

Where did you get the information that he was in the Dorset regiment?

Also- how do you know his middle name was Edward- is this listed on the 1939 register or on his death certificate?

AustinQ
On the actual marriage cert, Charles Edward Allen, full age, bachelor, Private RE, Victoria Barracks Belfast, father Thomas Allen, motor mechanic.
Could it be that motor mechanic be something other than car mechanic? The numbers were taken from Charles's medals. If only he had mentioned more about his family in England, it would certainly make things easier.

If the numbers were taken from his medals- then the above Charles (born Hampshire) is the correct one.

On the absent voter's list- his number is clearly displayed- along with his usual address- which is where other Allen family members were living (as shown on electoral register):

Autumn 1921:
Catherington Polling District. PK
Parish of Blendworth
Allen, Charles Edward- Woodhouse 128378 pte., Dorsets
County: Hampshire
Country: England

AustinQ
Tell me more about the absent voters list. This is new to me. Does that mean he was not in England at that time? I getting excited about this.

Aspen-

Yes-it meant that Charles was away from his usual address (in Hampshire) but was still eligible to vote. The register does not say where he was, but he could have been outside of England and still registered as eligible to vote on the absent voters list.

If you want to be certain, I would order the birth certificate to see if the DOB matches what you already know.- However, if the number on the medal you have matches, then I am certain it is the correct family.