Genealogy Chat

Iam looking to find the birth record of

John Henry Morgan, according to the 1939 Register his date of birth is 23rd April 1873. living at 76 Osborne Road Pontypool.

He married Rosa Beale in 1896 and his father was listed as Lewis Morgan.

The census records have him in 1891 Llanthewyvach Monmouthshire
John Morgan b 1874c Servant born Llantillio, Crossenny, Monmouthshire. also in house servant Rosa Beale his future wife.

1901 in Trevethin, and 1911 Pontnewydd, both show him as John Morgan born Llantillo,Crossenny.

Thank you for any help.

For our reference:


John Morgan
in the 1891 Wales Census
Name: John Morgan
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Llantillio Crossenny, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanthewy Vach
Ecclesiastical parish: Llanthewy Vach
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Pontypool
Sub registration district: Llangibby
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Piece: 4365
Folio: 18
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
Thomas Watkins 37
Florence M Watkins 4
Cecelia Ware 65
Rosa Beale 15
John Morgan 17



John Morgan
in the 1901 Wales Census
Name: John Morgan
Age in 1901: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation: Head
Spouse: Rosa Morgan
Gender: Male
Where born: Llantilo Cresseney, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Abersychan
Town: Freehold
Ecclesiastical parish: Trevethin
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 128
Piece: 4944
Folio: 136
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
John Morgan 27
Rosa Morgan 25
Ada G Morgan 4
Herbert I Morgan 2


Morgan
in the 1911 Wales Census
Name: Morgan
Age in 1911: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Llantillo Cross, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Abersychan
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Old Mill House Pontnewynydd
Marital Status: Married
Years Married: 14
Estimated Marriage Year: 1897
Occupation: Haulier, Coal Dealer
Registration district: Pontypool
Registration District Number: 586
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
ED, institution, or vessel: 09
Household schedule number: 58
Piece: 31904
Household Members:
Name Age
Morgan 37 - John on image
Rosa Morgan 35
Herbert Morgan 12
Edith Morgan 9
Alfred Morgan 7
Thomas Morgan 4
Winifred Morgan 2
Harriet Williams 60

Do you have the actual marriage cert?
If so, what other info is on it? Address / father's occupation / witnesses?

So far, I'm not seeing him before 1891, nor a birth reg to fit the POB and DOB.

This is the only John Morgan registered Monmouth reg district (which included Llantilio Crossenny) in the right quarter for an April birthday - but no middle name, and 1874, not 1873.

1901 and 1911 both suggest his YOB was c1874.


MORGAN, JOHN mms MORGAN
GRO Reference: 1874 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 31

But not seeing a marriage between a Lewis Morgan and another Morgan - at least not in Monmouthshire

Not seeing a Lewis Morgan with son John in 1881..

I am helping out a friend in Australia with this,I will contact and ask for all the details from the cert and get back with update.

Thank you

????


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Newarthen Cottage, Upper Treshew, Llantillio-Crossenny, Monmouth, Monmouthshire, Wales

Learn more
Print View image Add to tree
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Lewis Morgan Head Married Male 47 1834 Llanwenarth, Monmouthshire, Wales Farmer Of 95 Acres
Transcription
Catherine Morgan Wife Married Female 43 1838 Grosmont, Monmouthshire, Wales Farmers Wife
Transcription
William Morgan Son Single Male 5 1876 Llantilio Crossenny, Monmouthshire, Wales Farmers Son
Transcription
Elizabeth Ann Morgan Daughter Single Female 2 1879 Llantilio Crossenny, Monmouthshire, Wales Farmers Daughter

no john

I saw that 1881, safc, but if that's the right Lewis, where is John Henry, who would then have been approx. 7 or 8?

Births of the two children above:

MORGAN, WILLIAM HENRY mms PRICE
GRO Reference: 1875 D Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 37

MORGAN, ELIZABETH ANN mms PRICE
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 35

I'm not seeing the parents' marriage so far.

Another male child of that couple ?? John Henry ????

Right quarter of right year; right reg district; right mms.

MORGAN, - mms PRICE
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 35

Possible marriage of parents, if Catherine had been married before.

Right reg district for Grosmont where she was born.

Marriages Mar 1871 (>99%)
GWATKIN Catharine Hereford 6a 712
Morgan Lewis Hereford 6a 712

However, I don't see a Gwatkin / Cath* Price marriage - so maybe not.

The same couple in 1871:

Catherine Morgan
in the 1871 Wales Census
Name: Catherine Morgan
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Lewis Morgan
Gender: Female
Where born: Grosmont, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llantilio Crossenny
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Monmouth
Sub-registration district: Dingestow
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Household schedule number: 34
Piece: 5302
Folio: 77
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Lewis Morgan 37
Catherine Morgan 31
Edwin Lewis 13 - nephew

I don't see a birth for this child. Could he perhaps be John Henry but known as Lewis ??


Lewis Morgan
in the 1881 Wales Census
Name: Lewis Morgan
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Lantillio Crossenny, Monmouth, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanthewy Rhytherch
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: Church F Farm
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Farmers Son
Registration district: Abergavenny
Sub registration district: Llanarth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors:
Piece: 5232
Folio: 40
Page Number: 6
Household Members:
Name Age
Jonathan Davies 53
Mary Davies 52 - Llanwenarth
Mary C. Davies 27
Walter M. Davies 25
Sarah J. Davies 16
William E. Davies 13
Lewis Morgan 9




Mary Davies mms was Morgan - so a relative of Lewis?.

Birth of child Walter:

DAVIES, WALTER MORGAN mms MORGAN
GRO Reference: 1856 M Quarter in ABERGAVENNY Volume 11A Page 43

??

Marriages Dec 1853 (>99%)
Davies Jonathan Abergavenny 11a 113
Morgan Mary Abergavenny 11a 113


Lewis senior (Catherine's husband) was born in Llanwenarth - so a brother of Mary ?

Lewis and Mary's christenings:


Lewis Morgan
England Births and Christenings
Name Lewis Morgan
Gender Male
Christening Date 10 Jun 1833
Christening Date (Original) 10 JUN 1833
Christening Place LLANWENARTH,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Father's Name Lewis Morgan
Mother's Name Mary



Mary Morgan
England Births and Christenings
Name Mary Morgan
Gender Female
Christening Date 15 Jan 1829
Christening Date (Original) 15 JAN 1829
Christening Place LLANWENARTH,MONMOUTH,ENGLAND
Father's Name Lewis Morgan
Mother's Name Mary

The 1873 birth may not have been registered - there were no penalties until 1875

Maybe Catharine in 1841 ??


Catharine Price
in the 1841 Wales Census
Name: Catharine Price
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Female
Where born: Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Grosmont
Hundred: Skenfreth (Upper Division)
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Street address: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Kentchurch
Neighbors:
Piece: 748
Book: 5
Folio: 6
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Price 30
Susan Price 30
James Price 13
Susan Price 12
Ann Price 10
Diannah Price 8
William Price 6
Bedrigo Price 4
Catharine Price 1


And 1851:

Kate Price
in the 1851 Wales Census
Name: Kate Price
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Price
Mother's name: Susannah Price
Gender: Female
Where born: Grosmont, Monmouthshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Grosmont
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Monmouthshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Hereford
Sub-registration district: Hereford City
ED, institution, or vessel: 9b
Piece: 1978
Folio: 589
Page Number: 8
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members:
Name Age
William Price 47
Susannah Price 44
Ann Jonson 82
James Price 23
William Price 15
Abwnego Price 13
Kate Price 10
Mary Price 7
George Price 5
Eward Skyrme 20
Ann Price 20

Thank you for all the postings, iam still waiting for details from the marriage cert.

Argyll Gran you mention a birth reg Gro ref Vol 11A Page 35 JQ 1973 mms Price is this for a John Henry Morgan ? I have looked at the Reg on Ancestry and cant locate the record for the name.

Did you mean this? Its from the GRO site.

MORGAN, - mms PRICE
GRO Reference: 1873 J Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 35

ArgyllGran suggested it might be for John Henry Morgan if they hadn't made up their minds for a name.

This is Ancestry's transcription - as the mmn isn't on the indicies they hold, it hasn't been transcribed.

Male Morgan
Registration Year: 1873
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Monmouth
Inferred County: Monmouthshire
Volume: 11a
Page: 35

Thanks for clearing that up, I wonder if the record was obtained would it have a blank first name and if so why would this be.

Yes, it would have a blank for first name - probably, as DetEcTive says, because they hadn't made up their minds about a name.

But it would let you know if the parents were the correct Morgan/Price couple.

And as I said, the reg district, year, and quarter are all correct for John Henry's DOB as listed in 1939..

Thank you,

Just looked at GRO site for ord cert when I checked out deaths. There is a death for Morgan male M Q 1873 Monmouth age 0 yrs Vol 11a page 26 maybe this is the record for the male.

MORGAN, - 0
GRO Reference: 1873 M Quarter in MONMOUTH Volume 11A Page 26

That must be a different child.

GRO list the quarters by the end month, therefore it’s desth would have been reg Jan, Feb or Mar.

The birth was registered Apr, May or Jun.

Even if the there was a delay in reg the birth, they would have been expected to register it at the same time as the death. I suppose it’s possible the birth could have slipped through the net particularly as it wasn’t legally required. There’s only one way to be sure- order the pdf certificates :-D

Thank you

I will suggest she purchases the record, at least the date of birth may confirm its the same man from 1939 Register Date,she also has death cert maybe that will show a date of birth also I will ask for a copy.