Genealogy Chat

That's interesting, Elizabeth - thank you. Now that I know how old John Cole was when he died, there is a possible John Cole born in Kington St Michael so there could be a connection there. Worth further investigation!

Don't know if this is any help to trace the Thomas & Elizabeth or Betty as the parents, but there are wills for a Thomas & Betty in 1834 and 1855 in Kingston St Michael. they seem to have been owners of a few acres of land ,but no mention of gunsmith business.

Thank you so much Elizabeth - I was actually part of that "conversation" . I was Greybird. It was some time ago and although I hadn't forgotten about it, it wasn't uppermost in my thoughts now I've picked this up again. The Neate side of the family meets yet another brick wall a further generation back where there were 2 Thomases who married 2 Elizabeths and no way of telling which was which!

It never fails to amaze me to find how helpful GR members are. I live in hopes of being able to be helpful myself at some point, but I fear I have a long way to go!

google Neate of Devizes and click on 18-17 c Archive

No I'm not. Where do I find this forum?

Are you part of the forum on the Neate family, some interesting bits on there

Hello Elizabeth

Yes I am. Dinah Cole nee Neate was my 3 x Great Grandmother.

Are you related to the Neate side of the family

Thank you!

Amazon have a second hand copy of the book for just over £15.

Kath. x

Hello Elizabeth

I don't have that particular book, but I do have 2 others by the same gentlemen. We have identified at least 5 different premises in Northgate St/ Marketplace Devizes (one becomes the other halfway along) that the business was operated from at different times. 3 of them are now, respectively, a Chinese takeaway, a fish and chip shop and a mobile phone shop. Another later became the offices of the Wiltshire Herald.

I shall try and get hold of A Devizes Camera II - thank you for that.

don't know if you have any photographs of the shop, but there is a book called
A Devies Camera II by David Buxton & David Girvan

GR members never disappoint do they! You are all brilliant at this. I am so out of practice that I have been all at sea with the information. We knew a fair bit about the gunmaking side of things (quite coincidentally my brother was a black powder shooter - for the England team for a while - long before we knew about this connection), but had never heard anything about the bell hanging. We have a Cole of Devizes gun that dates from an earlier generation than this John Cole. There was another gunmaker in Devizes, from a different premises, Robert Cole, and the John Cole from Kington-St Michael had a brother Robert.

John Cole did die in March of that year and his will instructs that Dinah is to enlist the help of other gunmakers if she is unable to manage the business alone. This is obviously exactly what she did. John Cole Jnr was not part of the business by 1851 and I believe that he later worked in London as a gunsmith. There are connections with Stoke Newington. After Thomas Lott's death in 1862, the business was taken over by Dinah's son Frederick Cole and it remained in the family, I believe, until the 1960s. Gunmaking seems to be a trade that continues through families. We have evidence that Thomas Lott's ancestors were involved in the trade for several generations in Canterbury.

Thank you all for your kind help!

If he was 46 when he died in 1835, then he would have been 26 when the married in 1815 ........ a much better age than 41.

41 might indicate that he had been married before, but I see no mention of him being a widower on any of the transcripts of the marriage.

1789 +/- 2 years sounds a better birth for him.

I wish they had published an obituary for him!!!


I think I read somewhere that gunsmiths often died young back then because they didn't take any precautions and could be exposed to some lethal conditions.

There is also a notice in the 26 March 1840 edition of the Devizes and Wiltshire Gazette that John Cole, son of the late John Cole, is taking over the business in Northgate Street, and thanks everyone for their support of his late father and of his mother who had run the business after his father's death.

It looks like that John Cole died in very early March .............

On Tuesday last, aged 46, Mr. John Cole, gunsmith of Devizes, leaving a wife ami a numerous family. Melksham, -
5 March 1835 - Devizes and Wiltshire Gazette - Devizes


But there is also this later notice, in a box with others providing important information. The image does say Dinah COLE ...............

WILTSHIRE notices,
DINAH COLE, Widow tuk late John Cole, GUNSMITH, BELL-HANGER, 6>c. DEVIZES, BEGS to inform the Friends of her late husband, that she intends, with proper Assistants
26 March 1835 - Devizes and Wiltshire Gazette - Devize


Transcribed by me (imagine it centred in the column) .......

Dinah Coxie
Widow of the late John Cole
Gunsmith, Bell-Hanger etc, Devizes
Begs to inform the Friends of her late Husband, that she
intends, with proper Assistants, to carry on the Business
in its several branches. She most respectfully solicits the
patronage and support of the Public, in behalf of herself, and
numerous Family, assuring them that it shall be her strenuous
endeavour, by the strictest attention, to merit the support of
those kind Friends who so liberally employed her late husband.

Christine ..........

when I said Banns might to be called in previous parishes if they had resided in the current one for only a short time ......... ie, the "suitcase" in the house had not been there for longer than 3 weeks!

It's possible or even more probable that that the bride was working in Southbroom, eg as a servant

If 1789 ish is right, then he could be the one born in Kington-St-Michael - one I had considered before. Unless he came from outside Wiltshire (in which case I haven't a hope!) that looks to be the most likely one.

hi
its on find my past

newspapers 1835 wiltshire

what i have posted is all it says

Hello Safc. Where did you find that? My John Cole certainly was a gunsmith and he died in 1835, but we didn't know how old he was when he died. If 46 is correct, then the one I found born 1774 can't be the right one. This would narrow things down considerably.