Genealogy Chat

It almost sounds like some sort of family in-joke, like some of the references in the postcards.
But must have been a more serious idea, since he went as far as to join the army under that name.

It's very intriguing, I've looked back at the Treble and Lintott families a bit, but can't see a reason why Nicholas would have chose Fitzgerald De Ros as a name other than that obviously being scholarly he may have have had an interest in that family?

Good info on them just out of interest
http://www.cracroftspeerage.co.uk/online/content/ros1299.htm

Hmm - I wonder why he was dismissed?

Timeline:

1881 - Pupil teacher, Chobham
March 1885 - schoolmaster, Chobham, "returned to his duties".
April 1885 - presentation, as leaving for Farncombe.
1891 - certified teacher now manager of boot shop, Salford.
1901 - certified schoolmaster, working on own account, in Dukinfield, Lancs.
1904 - dismissed as schoolmaster, Hook, Surrey.
1911 - schoolmaster (unemployed), East Ham.


So he seems to have got himself into some sort of trouble in or before 1904, (or maybe was just a poor teacher) and wasn't working as a teacher after that , at least as far as we can tell from the censuses.

Why was he managing a boot shop in 1891? Couldn't get a teaching job ?
Why had he left Farncombe?

What does "schoolmaster working on own account" mean in 1901? Working as a private tutor, perhaps?
But he'd obviously found a post in Hook between then and 1904.

Although Nicholas junior was still called Treble in 1911, maybe he changed his name after that if there'd been some sort of scandal ?? Just a thought.

It's a fascinating story, and we'll probably never know the details.

and from papers ( just as background)

"A pleasing and gratifying presentation took place at St. Lawrence's School on Wednesday afternoon. when Mr. N. L. Treble, who is leaving the school for Farncombe, was presented with a handsome silver watch chain by the teachers and scholars of the Schools....."
27 April 1885 - Surrey Advertiser - Guildford, Surrey, England

As I've come across it, in the log book, 1904 " At a special meeting of all the managers held last night Mr N L treble was dismissed"

N L
Last name Treble
Title Mr
Year 1904
Entry date 27 Oct 1904
School name St Paul's Church of England School, Hook
Town Hook
County Surrey
Country England

The two Nicholases mus have had a mutual interest in religious (or maybe just Latin) poetry and/or music, as well as languages.

As well as the poem title I mentioned above, another card includes some Latin, part of which is "Pange lingua gloriosa" which is the title of a Gregorian chant.

Before that it says "O salutaris hostia", which is the title of a hymn written by St Thomas Aquinas.

So far, I haven't deciphered the rest of the Latin on that card - just the odd word here and there.
"(Something) beata Hyarulam (something) expundens vexillo." Which doesn't seem to mean anything so far!

Could well be ArgyllGran, I did wonder. Figured it was either master or matter, and if master might tie in with the school master occupation, depending on who was writing.

That explains the Joan of Arc reference :-)

I agree with everything on the Regent Street one, except I think it says, "The matter named . . . . ".

The way the word is written looks the same as the later instance of "matter".

It's definitely Joan of Arc.
There's another card, which maybe you don't have, from someone else, which says, "[Somebody - can't make out the name ] saw Joan of Arc and enjoyed it."

Ah right Argyll Gran we're looking at different cards. This is what I made of the Regent St one.

"" I think Joan of Arc is delightful. Regent St is rough lately and more like slum people some. The master named is going on and I am wishing that you were here as i wish to see you re the other matter. Please receive my warmest thanks and my heartiest respects, You are worth (the lot of them?) "

Not 100% on the Joan of Arc, but might be in reference to another card or similar?

From the German card I could make this out but the writing is very difficult to read on it,

""Immer forderung entsprechen mit umfasbender" which I believe translates as

"Always demand to speak with comprehension"

That might relate to the other card It reads: "yes of course you did right. These people not being specialists do not understand, of course I am aware of the fact. He is good in his line but leaves all difficult cases to me. My opinion is the one that they go by. So pleased that you liked ? B. It seems they are delighted. Do call and see me soon."

There's no mention of "Specials", or specialists, in the cards Christine has PM'd to me.

Perhaps it's on one of the German ones, which I said I couldn't help with, and which she therefore hasn't sent.

Yes, I'm having a go at them too, Rambling.

A couple of them have bits in Latin.

The one where the English part starts "It is as usual" has this Latin above it -

Hora novissima, tempora pessima sunt, vigilemu.

[That's the title of a poem by Bernard of Cluny, and means "These are the last days, the worst of times: let us keep watch."

I think they're cards from Nicholas junior to his father, but for some reason they have been written by (dictated to ?) someone else.

I think the couple of references to police action being needed in Lower Regent Street is in connection with prostitutes soliciting, which (from a thing I found on Google) was apparently rife in lower Regent Street and surrounding area 1903-16.

I am thinking that the use of German, is a family thing between them ( schoolmaster of languages?) I 'think' it's possible the other card with small amount of foreign language above the English is not German but might be Spanish , (one word translates on google as Basque? ) as it appears to have a 'Tilde' over at least one letter.

I think that the cards might be back and forth between father and son and so the sense of one depends on what was sent to the other, if you see what I mean.

I've made a stab at the 2 mainly English ones, and will try and look at the German, but the writing is like my old tutors, hard to make out until you have seen a lot of it lol.

If it helps I can add what I think they say on here to compare, if someone else is looking at them ?

So could it mean language specialist (useful in wartime), Rose?

Alternatively, if he was a teacher it could indicate that he was a specialist teacher - more usually found in senior schools, eg specialising and teaching one subject, eg mathematics, science, language etc.

Christine has attached some of the cards to a PM. I will reply to her but the word on one is not "Specials" it's specialists.

I mentioned Special Constables earlier on the other thread ..... but how about Special Services?

Edit: Special Services would connect him to the armed forces, by the way.

Looking at Newspapers, there are references in 1911 " .....that the enrolling of a permanent volunteer reserve of special constables is proceeding in accordance with Churchill's circular...."

"It was devised by Mr Churchill under the stress of the railway strike...."

?

posted on general
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/general_chat/thread/1378298

Special might refer to Special constable, but in this context it might be a family code for something, really need to see the correspondence in its entirety and get the German translated I think.

To send a private message, just click on my username at the top of one of my posts, and use the form which appears.

"Specials" could apply to many areas of interest - a historian might not be an appropriate person to ask. Hopefully the correspondence will shine some light.

Hi

The correspondence is all pre WW1 between 1910 and 1912 but mostly 1911. Everything is post marked London. How do I private message you?

I do not know when my Grandfather changed his name as it only became apparent from the war documents.

I have dabbled with this mystery over several years and it would be lovely to solve it. i had thought of putting a request our for a historian on the general chat forum who might know more about "specials" etc.

I will get one of my sons to scan the postcards written in French over the weekend.

Thank you for your help

kind Regards

Christine