Genealogy Chat

http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php

DETAILED MARRIAGE INFORMATION
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 1909-002149

MARRIAGE DETAILS Place of Marriage: WPG
Date of Marriage: 16/08/1909

PERSONAL DETAILS
GROOM BRIDE
Last Name: VERNON Last Name: LOVE
Given Names: ARTHUR HARRY Given Names: CLARA




DETAILED BIRTH INFORMATION
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 1910-009422

CHILD'S DETAILS
Last Name: VERNON
Given Names: EDITH MUREL
Sex: FEMALE Date of Birth: 20/02/1910

PLACE OF BIRTH DETAILS
Name of Hospital:
Place of Birth: WINNIPEG

OTHER PARTICULARS
Parents Married: YES Mother's Marital Status: MARRIED

MOTHER'S DETAILS
Maiden Last Name: SOAR Given Names: CLARA

Hi ArgyllGran,
The boy born in 1916 didn't know who his father was. His mother had been married but seperated and had the boy who was not her husbands. He was fostered out and only slightly knew his mother. The Vernon name is nowhere on their family tree and it's only the dna that strongly links this family to us. The boys mother lived in Aldershot and that's where he was born so that's why I feel my grandfather or grt grandfather must also have been there at some time in 1915. By elimination the link can only be on the Vernon side of my family. It's all very puzzling.

for our info - this is the 1911 prisoner you mention:

Walter Vernon
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Walter Vernon
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Prisoner
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sutton
County/Island: Yorkshire-East Riding
Country: England
Street address: Police Station Sutton Hull
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Typesetter Compositor On [or ? ] Tramp
Registration district: Sculcoates
Registration District Number: 521
Sub-registration district: Southcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Piece: 28596

She must know her father's name, from her birth cert (unless he wasn't named, of course.).
Is the name Vernon?

Therefore it should be possible to discover her grandfather's name, from father's birth cert.
If there's doubt as to who he really was, does that mean the name isn't Vernon?

I thought Walter or his son Harry (my grandfather) may have been in Aldershot in 1915 because a person did a dna test and she was a very strong link to me. Her father was born in Aldershot in 1916 and we've narrowed down his father as being my grandfather Harry or my grt grandfather Walter. My grandfather Harry was killed in France in 1918 but we don't know anything about Walter. I would love to help her solve the mystery and work out how we are related. Many thanks.

all walter's siblings were reg in the name of vernnon in brighton

Yes, that's what I thought - he's not your Walter, as he emigrated in 1881, when your Walter was still in England.

What makes you guess he may have been in Aldershot in 1915?

Hi ArgllGran, don't think that's my Walter as he was married to Edith. Think he was back in England by 1915 and maybe living in Aldershot. This is guess work on my part as not sure where he was. Many thanks for your input.
Hi Malyon, Yes he may have changed his name as I think he deserted his family and wouldn't want to be found.

he may have used his second name of francis someone i know relative dissapeared and was found using his mothers surname

This is probably that Walter Vernon returning to New York. He's listed as a printer's binder:

Walter Vernon
in the New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Walter Vernon
Arrival Date: 13 Aug 1909
Birth Date: abt 1863
Age: 46
Gender: Male
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Lusitania

EDIT:
He's probably not your Walter.

This looks like him (ie - the one who travelled in 1909) - a book binder - and if so, he emigrated in 1881 (clerk).

Walter Vernon
in the U.S. Passport Applications, 1795-1925
Name: Walter Vernon
Gender: Male
Age: 42
Birth Date: 21 Jul 1863
Birth Place: London, England
Residence Place: Chicago, Illinois
Passport Issue Date: 4 Apr 1906
Spouse: Mollie D Vernon
Has Photo: No
Certificate Number: 9459

In 1900 and 1910 US censuses he's in Chicago, a book binder; in 1920 he's in Calhoun, Michigan - a book keeper;
in 1930 he's a deputy assessor in San Diego; in 1940 he's still in San Diego, but retired.

Help (again)
I think I've found Walter Vernon in 1911 in a police cell/prison in Hull. Is there any way of finding what he was in prison for? It may be just vagrancy as it suggests that his job was a Type compositor or a tramp!
The Walter I'm looking for was a print compositor and the age seems right although it states he was born in Hull and not Brighton but of course he could have lied as to where he came from. Any ideas where he may have gone from Hull? Thanks

Thanks everyone, I could trace the rest of the family but Walter was the one I couldn't find. Very interesting that he may have been in America and returned in 1909 (If this was him). I cannot find him on the 1911 census and still couldn't find a death.
I think he may have left his family and started a new life as after the 1891 census he doesn't seem to have any link to them.
Thank you all for your input, very much appreciated.

Age slightly out, but this one's a printer. He had a through ticket to London:

Walter Vernon
in the UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Walter Vernon
Arrival Age: 45
Birth Date: abt 1864
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 1 Jun 1909
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England and Queenstown, Ireland
Ports of Voyage: New York
Ship Name: Mauretania
Shipping Line: Cunard Steamship Company Ltd
Official Number: 124093

Son Harry's death.

Soldiers Died In The Great War 1914-1919

First name(s) Harry Arthur
Last name Vernon
Service number 26451
Rank L/Cpl
Regiment Sherwood Foresters (Nottinghamshire And Derbyshire Regiment)
Battalion 15th Battalion.
Battalion details -
Residence Langley Mill, Derbyshire
Birth place Brighton, Sussex
Enlistment place Ilkeston, Derbyshire
Death year 1918
Death day 22
Death month 3
Cause of death Killed in action
Death place France & Flanders

He married Clara Soar in Winnipeg, 1909 and had 5 children. Edith Muriel 20.2.1910 Winnipeg, Ruth Helen 8.6.1911 Cresswell, Albert Henry 15.9.12 Shipley, Elsie Louise 2.1.14 Stanton Hill and John Henry 7.1.16 Ilkeston.


So 1911 for his family.

1911 Census For England & Wales

73 a Wilmer Road Shipley, Shipley, Yorkshire & Yorkshire (West Riding), England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Elizabeth Soar Head Single Female 36 1875 Domestic Supply Stoney Notts
Clara Vernon Visitor Married Female 24 1887 - Langley Mill Notts
Edith Muriel Vernon Visitor - Female 1 1910 - Canada Visitor

Name: Walter Francis Vernon
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 6 Jan 1861
Christening Place: Brighton, Sussex, England
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Map:
View this parish
Father: James Vernon
Mother: Charlotte Vernon

??

Name: Walter Vernon
Arrival Date: 6 Jan 1896
Birth Date: abt 1861
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Occ: Grocer's Assistant
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Etruria

Probably not, in view of occupation, but.........................

1851 shows Baldey relatives visiting, so presume a first marriage for Charlotte, but not seeing

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
North Street, Brighthelmstone, Brighton, Sussex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Vernon Head Married Male 25 1826 Milkmans Labourer Eastbourne, Sussex, England
Charlotte Vernon Wife Married Female 23 1828 - Balmer, Sussex, England
Caroline E Vernon Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Brighton, Sussex, England
Alice Vernon Niece - Female 10 1841 Nursemaid Eastbourne, Sussex, England
Harriett Baldey Visitor Unmarried Female 21 1830 Servant Out Of Place Balmer, Sussex, England
Eliza Baldey Visitor Unmarried Female 19 1832 Servant Out Of Place Ashcombe, Sussex, England

Birth registered Mar Qtr 1861 (6 weeks allowed in which to register)

Note spelling - the image would actually appear to be Vernnon as there is the surname Vernon underneath. The page is quite indistinct, but can make that out.

From freebmd

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Mar 1861 (>99%)
VERNNON Walter Francis Brighton 2b 177

and from the GRO site

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
VERNNON, WALTER FRANCIS BALDEY
GRO Reference: 1861 M Quarter in BRIGHTON Volume 02B Page 177

Image shows Walter aged 4 months. Date of Census 7 April 1861 so if age accurate, born December 1860. There were no penalties for not registering a Birth until the mid1870's

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
16, Francis Street, Brighton, Sussex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
James Vernon Head Married Male 35 1826 Carpenter Eastbourne, Sussex, England
Charlotte Vernon Wife Married Female 33 1828 - Falmer, Sussex, England
Caroline Elizabeth Vernon Daughter - Female 11 1850 Scholar Brighton, Sussex, England
Henry Wm Vernon Son - Male 9 1852 Scholar Brighton, Sussex, England
Jane Eliza Vernon Daughter - Female 7 1854 Scholar Brighton, Sussex, England
Emma Louisa Vernon Daughter - Female 6 1855 Scholar Brighton, Sussex, England
Walter Francis Vernon Son - Male 0 1861 - Brighton, Sussex, England

Walter and Edith's marriage:-

First name(s) EDITH LOUISA
Last name PIERCY
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1881
Registration month -
MarriageFinder ™

EDITH LOUISA PIERCY married one of these people

>>>>>Walter Francis Vernon<<<<<, Patrick Moloney

District Brighton
District number -
County Sussex
Country England
Volume 2B
Volume as transcribed 2B
Page number 354
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

Kath. x

Edith describes herself as a widow in the 1911 census so he either died or the couple just split up:-

1911 Census For England & Wales
41 Lewes Street Brighton, Brighton, Sussex, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

Harriett Piercy Head Widow Female 77 1834 Old Age Pensioner Godstone Surrey
Edith Louiosa Vernon Daughter Widow Female 49 1862 Dressmaker Charlwood Surrey<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Bruce Peircey Son Single Male 34 1877 Motor Car Driver Domestic Brighton Sussex

Kath. x