Genealogy Chat

Hi - can anyone advise me please?

I've been unable to find birth certificates for 2 of my ancestors. They are my grandma & her dad (on my dad's side.) I've searched the BMD indexes and, for my grandma, requested a search at the local registry office. Nothing has turned up in all cases.

I have found my grandma's marriage cert and have found her dad's family in the 1901 census but I need the birth certificates to confirm details and continue searching family history.

It seems unlikely that both certificates would have been lost or damaged, I wondered if there was any chance the births were not registered. If a child is baptised is it still a legal requirement to register the birth?

Thanx for any info - Philsma

All bmd's were supposed to be registered after the GRO was set up in 1837...........in practise, many births were not registered in the early days.........but in 1875, fines were introduced for non-registration.

Would the events you can't find have occurred after 1875?

Incidentally, the online info is the GRO index...........certs cannot be viewed online.

I'm assuming you refer to England/Wales.

The other possible reason is that your grandma was not registered under the name of the man she knew as her father................

If you wish members to try to help, post names, years and locations

Reg

Can you list the details?

Rose

As Reg said....

"The other possible reason is that your grandma was not registered under the name of the man she knew as her father"................

meaning.... born before marriage so registered in mothers maiden name.

Rita
Did you look on the FULL index or just freeBMD? (which is incomplete)

Tip---- never pay more than £7 for any cert.

Gerri x

Hi all - thanx for replying.

Reggie - My grandma was born in Sheffield in 1892 and her dad in Unstone, Derbyshire in 1870.

Rose - My grandma's details are as follows:-

Beatrice Cropper, father's name John Cropper, occupation miner. Mother's name Annie E Cropper n. Hall. The address at the time of grandma's birth could have been 1 Court Pye Bank, Brightside.

Gerri - yep, I've searched the full BMD index of the GRO. I've also looked under "Hall" but couldn't find anything.

Apologies to everyone - I've jusr read thru my notes again & found a record of birth for John Cropper which I hadn't got round to ordering when I posted my 1st message. I still would appreciate any help with my grandma though as I seem to have drawn a complete blank. As Reg says a certificate should have been issued since the year is as late as 1892.

Cheers, Philsma

Have you seen that there is a Beatrice Crapper born in the sept qtr of 1891 in Sheffield.

Also, on the 1901 census there is a Beatrice Cropper aged 9 living with grandfather John Cropper aged 62 who has a wife Sarah aged 28!

Don't know if these are relevant to your family.

Carolyn

Just checked again and the address in 1901 was 142 City Road, Sheffield, and the grandfather was a miner born Derby, Unstone.

Carolyn

Did you think of checking under misspelling?
I found on Ancestry
Beatrice Crapper Sheffield 3rd Qtr 1891 Vol.9C page 541.

also a 1890 2nd Qtr Sheffield Vol 9C page 489 Beatrice Annie Crapper.

As someone whose Connolly's have been Conley, Conelley and more I always now look at everything. You can ask for the certificate stipulating only if the parents are John & Annie nee Hall.

Best wishes and Good Luck

Maddy

Are you sure the mother was Annie?

Marriages Jun 1891

Cropper John Sheffield 9c 563
Hall Alice Sheffield 9c 563

Rose

Hi Carolyn Maddy & Rose - thanx v. much for your help.

I've not looked at any year before 1892 as I know for cert this was when Nan was born.

I've seen the 1901 Census & am pretty sure this is my girl but I'd still like to find the birth cert. I've found another entry for a Beatrice Alice HALL Sep 1892 .... here's hoping.

There's been a pattern of naming children after parents/aunts/uncles in the census reports, so the marriage of John Cropper to Alice HALL might be worth checking out.

Thanx again - I'll let u know if there's any joy!

Philsma

Hi Christine - sorry to hear ur having the same problems - I was beginning to think it was just me!
Just when I thought I'd found a long-lost rellie I'd get a reply from the ONS saying names or other details didn't match. Or another search would come to a dead-end. Still ..... forever onward, I'm not ready to throw the towel in yet.

Best of luck to you - regards, Philsma

Hi - just to update - the birth cert I was waiting for (Beatrice Alice Hall b. 1892 in Sheffield) turned out to be different parents - thought I'd cracked it as well!

Hi Von - 1892 is the date given on my Nan's gravestone, I have searched 1892-1893 but still to no avail. My Dad would have been the informant re. the death certificate, it's got to be the right year.

Re. the marriage of John Cropper & Alice Hall - June 1891, Vol 9c p 563 - I've got this ref twice in my notes & crossed out for some reason, probably wrong grooms father's name and/or occupation.
I always ask for ref. checks when ordering certificates otherwise it would cost a fortune.

I seem to be running out of luck with this one unfortunately. I'll probably start looking from another angle - maybe my grandad's birth again. I didn't actually order the birth cert. I found - mentioned in my earlier post - cos this was for Sep 1872. Again the year seems a bit late as other info indicates yob nearer 1870. I might contact Derbys. register office & request a search to cover 1870-1872. Let's hope it does the trick.

Thanx to everyone for your help - Philsma

John's baptism..and his brother

Cropper, British Isles
Father: John , Mother: Elizabeth
Exact Spelling: Off
Batch Number: J049934

1. JOHN CROPPER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 01 JAN 1871 Dronfield, Derby, England

2. THOMAS CROPPER - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 01 JAN 1871 Dronfield, Derby, England

As John was stated to be 1 year old on 1871 census, his birth would have been during the year up to the date in 1870 which was one year before the 1871 census.......if you see what I mean!!

So, 1869/70...............no later

Reg

Do you have any instance of Beatrice together with her 'father'?

Or have you got his name only from her marriage cert?

And.......where does your info come from about her place of birth?

And, sorry if I seem to cast doubts on your dad......but he only knew what he was told about his mother's birth year...........so allow for possible discrepancies...........he wasn't there when she was born!!

Reg

I have to say here that right up until my grandfather died, every member of the family would have said he was born on December 25 1884 ............... WRONG

After he died, his son had to get hold of father's birth certificate and discovered he was actually born January 9 1885.

Only 2 weeks difference, but still an error.

In fact, my brother thought Granddad was actually born December 25 1885 when he started doing some genealogy back in the 1980s.

so even families don't always know the correct birth date!



sylvia

Possible birth for John

John Crapper
Year of Registration: 1870
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Chesterfield
County: Derbyshire
Volume: 7b
Page: 612

Have you got the Beatrice Crapper cert? If not I would be tempted to go for that and the marriage of John and Alice Hall.

Andy

Just to add, I got my great-aunty Gertrude's birth certificate and her birth was shown as 13 Sep 1896.

We located her headstone this year which had been put up by her her children and that gave her date of birth as 13 Sep 1897. Given that Gert (as they called her) died in the June before her 56th birthday, I wonder if someone got mixed up, forgot how old she was and thought she had had her last birthday the same year as she died.

Don't rely on dates being right just because they are carved in stone on a headstone. My grandmother's age is out by 2 years on her headstone and my other grandmother's date of death is wrong on hers. It has her dying on 21st June 1931, when in fact she died 4th June and was buried 6th June. I would hate to think the headstone was right and she was buried 2 weeks before she died!!!!!

Kath. x

Don't believe the gravestone, anyone can make a mistake. My grandfathers is a year out and he died in 1964. Fortunatley he has an unusual 2nd name so was easy to track down.

Try searching in earlier years. People are also known to lie about their ages for one reason or another. My Gtgrandmother did when she married in America, she knocked a whopping 11 years of her age! By the time she died she had added 7 of them back again.

Rosalind

Hi Reg - thanx for looking in the IGI for John. Sorry its taken so long to reply - been rushing about with Xmas etc so not been on site for a while.

I found some more siblings there & asked Derbyshire Records to search for the baptisms just to confirm. The family had the children all baptised together in 1871 and there was another entry for a child I had missed in the IGI. Success at last!

Regards, Rita