General Chat

A local author here in Norwich is working on a tv script of the story of Rosa and James Kowen and trying to find out what happened to their two sons, Reginald and Clifford.
Mr Kowen died in a fire at his Norwich home at Christmas 1905 and his wife was accused of murdering him.

It seems that during the trial and when Rose was committed to Hellesdon Mental Hospital, the boys were looked after by either a family friend or members of the family.
After that, the trail goes cold. Mr M. Chandler is hoping someone has stories which might help his research.

If there is anyone who knows someone of this name who might be connected to the family, pm me and I will forward Mr C's details to contact him.

Lizx

Have pm'd you....

AnotherCanuck

Reginald was actually Howard and he went to Canada. He married and Annie and had a daughter Christina. He came back to the UK in 1950 and 1953.

1901 England Census
about Howard R Rowen
Name: Howard R Rowen
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1894
Relation: Son
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Rosa
Gender: Male
Where born: Norwich, Norfolk, England
Civil parish: Norwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St Bartholomew
Town: Heigham
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Registration district: Norwich
Sub-registration district: West Wymer
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 82
Household Members: Name Age
James Rowen 35
Rosa Rowen 35
Howard R Rowen 7

Rose

Canadian Soldiers of World War I, 1914-1918
about Howard R Kowen
Name: Howard R Kowen
Birth Date: 31 Dec 1893
Birth Location: Norwick Norfolk, England
Relative: Mrs Rosa Kowen
Regiment Number: 38494

Rose

Clifford stayed in England:

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915
about Clifford John Kowen
Name: Clifford John Kowen
Year of Registration: 1901
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Norwich
County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 177

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005
about Clifford J Kowen
Name: Clifford J Kowen
Spouse Surname: Gibson
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1928
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration county (inferred): Surrey
Volume Number: 1d
Page Number: 608
Find Spouse: Elsie Gibson


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Clifford J Kowen
Name: Clifford J Kowen
Death Registration Month/Year: Q3-Jul-Aug-Sep 1964
Age at death (estimated): 63
Registration district: Norwich
Inferred County: Norfolk
Volume: 4b
Page: 568

Rose

Plenty of info. on them on Ancestry. Clifford is in all the old phone books.

Rose

Clifford had a daughter and she had 2 daughters.

Rose

The daughter is on 192. Will PM you.

Rose

Thanks all, will get back to you later, o.h. wants computer so I just nipped on here.

Lizx

strange, if all that info is available I would have thought the author could find it our for himself.

Looks like there's a book about it.

http://www.pen-and-sword.co.uk/?product_id=1617

Hope the rellies know!

Rose

On May 6 1953 he and Annie were passengers on the Queen Mary port of departure Southampton heading for New York. His occupation was Fireman.

On a journey 1952 outward bound to Canada, their last known address was 161 Newmarket Road, Norwich Norfolk.

Yes the book chronicles several murders etc in Norfolk and has been out for a while, it may be why Mr Chandler has decided to write the tv script.

I have emailed him to say I have information, tried to phone him but his voicemail box is full already suggesting he has been inundated with info perhaps.

I will let you know if/when I get a response but many thanks to all of you who sent me info. It was interesting to see there are relatives, two people with the surname of the daughter of Clifford are listed in the phone book.

It may be that he has already got a lot of the info but just wants more info to fill out the facts and see what really happened.

The addresses passed to me and on here are close to my own house, in what is known as the Golden Triangle, in Estate Agent speak! (It's because it is close to Norwich city centre, and to what was our original hospital, not far from our newish 'state of the art that already has too few beds' hospital, the University and the Science Park and Newmarket Road speaks for itself, it's the main road out of Norwich that heads towards Newmarket, Cambridge, and London etc)
I am wondering if the address was Newmarket Road or Street, as Newmarket road has mostly large imposing houses and Newmarket Street is full of smaller terraced houses. The address given in Onley Street (also smaller terraced houses) is next door to my friend's house, wonder if she knows as she has lived there for many years altho not at the time of the murder unless her parents owned it first.

Lizx

Actually Rose, you have got down Rowen instead of Kowen, is that a typing error of yours or has the surname been mistranscribed?

There is no 161 Newmarket Road in the 1911 census

edit:- Or Newmarket Street come to that.

Having sent some of the info to Michael, I have already received a reply to say he is chuffed to bits with the stuff I have sent, and wants to talk to me later about it all. I still have some info to copy and paste to him later but have given him the gist of it all.

Will keep you all posted, thanks again for the help on here and in pms etc

Lizx

I wonder if he will credit the lovely people from GR on thecredits... or whatever it is called, lolol... as they have been so helpful to him... imagine that

*I would like to thank *Another Canuck*, *Susan with Numbers*, *Click on the Purple reply button and not my name*... and *Purple Sparkly Diamond, lololol

Now I would buy that film just to show people, lolol!

Love

Daff xxxx

You're so very welcome, it was a great pleasure to have helped with
this request & look forward to an update re the Kowen family...

K/Regards,
AnotherCanuck x

Sorry Susan, missed that post earlier.

I think at one time Newmarket street had a different name,( it's shown as New Market street in some old documents I think) but as it's all terraced houses they were there by 1911. I am trying to remember the house numbers - I will have a drive along there another day. Newmarket road is split by the ring road and so the houses which would be numbered that high are probably over the other side of the road, and therefore not built till the 1930s maybe the odd one or two on farmland or similar before that. It would mean that it should read Newmarket Street and maybe the number is mistranscribed.
Heaven knows I have walked along both roads many many times lol but can't remember numbers now, except a few where friends lived at the lower numbered end!

Lizx

Liz,

Rowen is the Ancestry 1901 transcription. Looks like Kowen on the original.

Rose

thanks Rose, thought that was the case. Can you let Ancestry know there is an error?

Daff, lol fame at last ?

Lizx