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that was 4 years ago

and 2 years ago you were there Margee :-)

'Parr family missing from 1911 census'

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/tips_board/thread/1336476

oops

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1292797

I'm not going to read all four pages, but I'd bet that a lot of ground is being re-hoed

You've been busy, Margee, thank you, yes that's the family. They are all present and correct in the 1901 census but I have so far failed to find them in the 1911.

I'm now pretty well certain that J H T Parr was referred to as "Dick" in the 1901 census. It's the only interpretation that makes sense. In later life he appears to have preferred Jack rather than John.

Thanks to the 1939 register I have found J H T Parr and his wife, but so far no trace of Ellen Jane Parr, nothing, no death record, no marriage record, nothing in the 1911 census, nothing!

Thomas William Parr

in the London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
Record Image View

Name: Thomas William Parr
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Age: 26
Spouse: Edith Louise Tidy
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: Sep 1894
Parish: All Saints, Hatcham Park
Borough: Lewisham
Father Name: James Parr
Spouse Father: William Tidy
Register Type: Parish Register

Ellen Parr

in the 1901 England Census
Record Image View

View blank form

Name: Ellen Parr
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1898
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Father: Thos Wm Parr
Mother: Edith Parr
Birth Place: Hoxton, London, England
Civil Parish: Isleworth
Search Photos: Search for 'Isleworth' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: Brentford
Sub-registration district: Isleworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1184
Folio: 152
Page Number: 3
Household schedule number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Thos Wm Parr 25, born Cambridgeshire
Edith Parr 28, born Woolwich
Arthur Parr 5, born Hoxton
Ellen Parr 3, born"
Dick Parr 2, born "
Betsey Ball 30, sister, born Sheerness
Florie Ball 5, dau, born Chatham
Sophie Ball 3, dau, born "

And Ellen Jane?

Ellen Jane Parr

in the London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: Ellen Jane Parr
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 23 May 1897
Father's name: Thomas William Parr
Mother's name: Edith Louise Parr
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hoxton St John
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

Is this your John Henry Thomas Parr?

John Henry Thomas Parr

in the London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Record Image View

Name: John Henry Thomas Parr
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 4 Dec 1898
Father's name: Thomas William Parr
Mother's name: Edith Louise Parr
Parish or Poor Law Union: Hoxton St John
Borough: Hackney
Register Type: Parish Registers

Well, it took a while but we got there in the end!

The GR tree mentioned in this thread was created by Terri Rogers but it seems she is no longer a GR subscriber - so the information just sits there showing up in searches but otherwise inaccessible. Frustrating.

However, by some patient detective work (Sherlock Holmes would be proud of me ;-)) I found street addresses for the two sisters. I wrote to them and am now in contact.

It seems Olive died young (35) and was an only child so there was very little information passed on about her side of the family, which is disappointing, but you never know what might come to light.

This was all with the aim of finding something about Ellen Jane Parr who seems to have vanished in a puff of smoke, and more about J H T Parr. So I'm not a lot further forward. This is beginning to look like a brick wall!

Keith

Thank you Joonie, that makes sense. I had subsequently found the two Alfred Rogers entries as being the most likely. I need to check whether the birth date in the death certificate matches but it looks likely.

I hadn't spotted the tree matches, or rather I hadn't seen a way to select a probable from the many possibles. Obvious when you know how. Thank you both!

Keith

also this seems most likely to be Alfred's birth and death (no other birth to match the death)

Alfred S Rogers Oct-Nov-Dec 1920 Camberwell
Alfred Stanley Rogers 1920 Apr 2002 Barnet

and the same person has him in their tree

and I expect this record refers to him (unfortunately no info with it):

http://www.paradata.org.uk/people/alfred-stanley-rogers

I think Kay was probably referring to the tree search results here

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/tree/results/rogers/teresa?memberkey=0&yearofbirth=1961

the person who shows Teresa Rogers born 1961 London
(your Teresa is the only birth that matches that info)

the same member also has Patricia 1959 in her tree ... and also Olive Parr 1930 ... so it seems a pretty certain match

I'm not sure what you're getting at, Kay. I have a freebmd record for Teresa if that's the one you mean.

What do you mean by "contact"?

Keith

There is only one London birth 1961 of that name spelling,so could be worth a contact.

True, although I know Alfred reported the death of his father in law in 1960 at which time he was living at 75 Mount Nod Road SW16

Thanks for checking the (lack of) probates for Olive!

I've found a possible death for Alfred but to confirm it's the right one requires the certificate and that's a 2 week delay. I'll order the most likely birth certificate at the same time.

Name: Alfred Stanley Rogers
Birth Date: 14 Oct 1920
Date of Registration: Apr 2002

Keith

To save you a bit of time, I've checked the Probate Calendar for all Olive May Rogers whose Probates and deaths are listed after 1996.
Although there are 3 - 200, 2005 & 2006 - they can all be found on the gro index and had the wrong yob. Not just a year or so, but several years out!

We haven't considered that Alfred and Olive may have married other people at some point in their lives, or may have emigrated.

Thanks for those suggestions, Detective, that's just the sort of help I was hoping for.

I'd looked for ER entries on Ancestry but was discouraged by the volume of possibles, plus the possibility / probability that they were no longer using their own names eg if they were married or equivalent.

I'll concentrate on the deaths and probates first I think.

Keith

Thanks Kay.

I had looked for both in trees but failed to find one that looked likely. I also searched for their parents without success.

Keith

We'd tend to look for marriages about 20+ years from the year of birth - obviously there are exceptions.
As the girls were both born in the SE, unless you know differently, they were probably married from their parents' area.

Its possible to search for ER entries on
http://www.searchelectoralroll.co.uk/Electoral_Roll_Search.asp
but you'd be advised to check with a free search to see the year(s) they were registered at the address on 192.com for free. Just use the name and post code.
We've all been able to opt out of the on-line ER from 2002. If one of the possible results is like that, check if the property has been sold via an estate agent on http://www.zoopla.co.uk/
If it hasn't, its either a Rental or they still own it.

As you know, there are't many BMD indexes on line after 2006. You can search for Probate Calendar entries on https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills
The data base on Ancestry only goes up to 1966. Until 1996 the usual address was given. After that, the only 'place' is the Registry which may not be where they lived. Not all Estates go to Probate especially if the deceased Willed all their Estate to the surviving spouse or if it was too 'small'

Thanks Detective.

Yes, the marriage was 1954. I've not got my head around all the boundary changes, the record I have says it was Lambeth:

Name: Olive M Parr
Spouse Surname: Rogers
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1954
Registration district: Lambeth
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume Number: 5c
Page Number: 3058

I've not yet found deaths for either of the parents, thanks, that's the next search.

I hadn't seen the 1955 birth, don't know why I missed it. Thanks for that. The same combination of surnames makes it very likely, perhaps I had filtered it out as I wasn't looking in Essex? Don't know! The other two births are Surrey and Wandsworth. I'll order the birth certificate, thanks again, that might be important.

Mmmm.... there are also two more with the same combination in 1953, obviously more common than I had expected.

Olive is / was Olive May Parr.

Keith

Try search trees there could be a match for Teresa.