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This was on the other thread:

Marriage:
Marriages Sep 1939 (>99%)
Harrington Kathleen Russell Hastings 2b 78
Russell Alfred L Harrington Hastings 2b 78
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Hastings and St Leonards Observer 15 July 1939

St Thomas of Canterbury Church, St Leonards was the scene of a charming wedding on Saturday when Miss Kathleen Mary Harrington, eldest daughter of Mr & Mrs Harrington of 52 Church Road, St Leonards was married to Alfred Leonard Russell, eldest son of Mr & Mrs Russell of Western Road, St Leonards.

Can anyone locate 52 Church Rd in 1939?

Rose

No help I am afraid - the property was vacant..........


52 Church Road , Hastings C.B., Sussex, England
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This property was vacant in 1939

With this record, you are able to see the original image showing neighbouring properties' occupants, plus Maps, Newspapers, Statistics & Photos, but note you don't see this property's Household Transcript, as there were no occupants living here in 1939.

Dea x

This appears to be the couple although there is another name for Kathleen - she must have married again later?

1939:
Russell Household (2 People) 60 Mount Pleasant Road , Hastings C.B., Sussex,
First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Alfred L Russell 08 Mar 1908 Painter & Decorator
Kathleen ? Westover (Russell) 31 Jul 1916 Unpaid Domestic Duties (Could very well be Kathleen 'M' on image)

1911 shows the family at the address mentioned:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22 Western Road St Leonards on Sea, Hastings, Sussex, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Alfred Russell Head Married Male 34 1877 Sussex Rye House Decorator
Transcription
Lucy Russell Wife Married Female 30 1881 Sussex Bognor -
Transcription
Alfred Leonard Russell Son - Male 3 1908 Sussex St Leonards -
Transcription
Harold James Russell Son - Male 0 1911 Sussex St Leonards -
Transcription
Fredrick Charles Knight Boarder Single Male 28 1883 Kent Riverhead Motor And Generall Engineer

Dea

I don't think I've found any of the Harringtons in 1939.

Russell Household (3 People) 22 Western Road , Hastings C.B., Sussex, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Alfred Russell 04 Jun 1876 Master Jobbing Carpenter & Decorator
Lucy Russell 12 Apr 1880 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Reginald G Russell 31 Dec 1913 Making & Selling Furrier

Dea x

Kathleen married 1. Alfred Russell, and 2. Philip Davies, and between those 2 she changed her name to Westover and had a daughter.

This is the record I found of an Agnes M Kelly in a 1911 trade register, but she wasn't at the Vincent Square address in the 1911 census.

http://prntscr.com/my749w

I found Nora Bickley, she was at her home address in the census, listed as owner of typewriting service.

Yes, the whole Kelly scenario is very confusing.
[EDIT: Oops, you've deleted a post saying how confusing the Kellys are.]

Looking back through the two threads -

On her mother's side, your Anne is the grand-daughter of Annie Kelly nee Scullion (born 1877, domestic servant and daughter of a labourer in Broxburn), who was rumoured to have gone to a French finishing school, and liked to pray in French.


On her father's side, your Anne is the grand-daughter of Agnes Mary Kelly, born c1890, who was a governess at marriage, but is rumoured to have worked for a French fashion house.


Neither of them seems like an obvious candidate for either of the French stories, and it seems a big coincidence that both Anne's grandmothers have a French rumour attached to them.

Is family legend mixing up the two women?

Anne's blood maternal great grandmother was Margaret Kelly nee Ellison - Annie Scullion was her step-great grandmother.

The story of the French connection to Annie Scullion came from the contact I made in Australia, whom Anne didn't know: the French connection to paternal grandmother Agnes came from Anne herself - so it is just coincidence. Sometimes fact is indeed stranger than fiction.

If Agnes was 26 in 1916, surely she must be somewhere in the 1901 and 1911 - I'm going round in circles looking for her. And where the heck were they in 1939?

I keep looking at this

1901 Nazereth House Isleworth London
Agnes Kelly born 1888 a scholar born London

1911 Nazereth House Isleworth
Agnes Kelly 1888 London dining room maid

?? Agnes getting confirmed 1912 age 22 at St Marys Balham her address was 346 Cavendish Road
Balham to Chelsea 3/4 miles

Isleworth to Chelsea @ 9 miles.

There are various records for Agnes Kelly a Dressmaker born 1888 in Parish of St Luke Chelsea workhouse, seems she had a daughter Agnes Theresa Kelly 18/4/1912 V1a P 682 this Agnes spent time in Chelsea workhouse infirmary including 4/11/1913 maybe this is her death
Agnes Kelly born @ 1912 died O/N/D 1913 BermondseyV1d P215.

Bermondsey to Elystan Street 5miles


Agnes Mary Harrington born @ 1888 died Weymouth Dorset1966 V7c P841.

I can't find a Agnes to match the above in 1891 census.

Maryb.

That's very interesting, Mary, thank you - I'll see if I can find the 1912 confirmation, perhaps it will show the name she took then. I looked at the Weymouth death, but can find no reason why she should have been there, none of the other family members seem to have moved out that far.

Nazareth House sounds like some sort of refuge.

Every time I see someone listed as Dressmaker I remember being told that that was often a euphemism for prostitute. Now that would be funny, for very religious prim and proper grandmama.

Now that is interesting - in 1901 Agnes Kelly was a pupil at Nazareth House, and in 1911 she was servant. Nazareth House was an old people's home and Industrial School for RC girls, which I believe housed impoverished or delinquent children. So once she was too old to be a pupil, she was employed by them as dining room maid, which implies no family to go back to.

There's also an Elizabeth Kelly, inmate, but she's 75.

The one on confirmation was at the same address in 1911 as a servant born Somerset,so not the one that was at Nazerath House.

Maryb.

Agnes Kelly born 1889 in Liverpool, confirmed 1910, took the baptismal name of Maria.

http://prntscr.com/mybsid

Clutching at straws again - this from the 1939 Register:

http://prntscr.com/mybz6b

Agnes married Montague Douglas, but there were a lot of Williams in the family, and they were bootmakers and linen drapers. Montague was born c1871.

There's also one closed record with that couple - at last on Ancestry. FMP may be more up-to-date.

The address is in Biggleswade, Beds.

Apart from the husband's first name and his occupation, it all seems to fit.
and his age is a year out, but the quarter is correct.

Sorry it doesn't look like the above.

Millicent Agnes Reynolds nee Cox married William 1935 in 1945 they are at the same address and Agnes is down as Millicent Agnes.

It's strange they can't be found in 1939,did you find son Douglas in 1939?

Maryb

No, not so far - in 1944 he married Anne's mother, Annie Kelly Muir, in Edinburgh.

I thought finding Anne's mother's side was hard enough (to recap, she knew nothing about her mother except she was born in Edinburgh and stayed with a grandmother in Broxburn. She even had her mother's name wrong, registering her death as Anne Mary Harrington . I spent weeks looking for Anne Mary Muir, only to discover Muir was her step father, her real birth name was Annie Kelly), so I thought the Harringtons would be a doddle. Apart from not finding them in the 1939, its been ok, just can't find anything for Agnes M Kelly.

I hoped that her marriage certificate would give more clues, but father Michael, dec'd, commercial traveller, has been no help at all. Perhaps she took a leaf out of my mother in law's father's book - his father was a London photographer, but on his marriage certificate he's down as Secretary to the Maharajah of Madras!

Son Douglas may have been in Scotland in 1939, and therefore possibly his parents too.

The only way to check that would be to apply, for a fee, and with a copy of his death cert..

https://tinyurl.com/jelwcab

I'm not sure, but I think that even if a record was found for him in Scotland in 1939, you wouldn't be told who else was at his address - you'd have to apply separately for the record of each person you hoped was there.

Not a helpful or user-friendly system!


There are a number of Harringtons in Scotland on the 1935 Valuation Rolls - but no Douglas, Agnes, or Montague.

I love "Secretary to the Maharajah of Madras" !

That shows real imagination and flair!