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Conflicting information re my Grandfather.

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

huwsam

huwsam Report 10 Jun 2019 05:40

Re: William James Davies born 1874 in Graig Monmouth

I have been searching (on and off) for information about my paternal grandfather for over 20 years without success. No, I have not sought assistance before. I have found conflicting records regarding his birth and death on the 1911 Census and England & Wales Deaths. His birth is registered as either 1874 or 1875.

His birth is correctly recorded as 1874, in the Find My Past Deaths Transcription & location etc is correct. The record shows he died in 1935 in Surrey Eastern. Volume 2A, Page 189. However I am sure he was still alive at the time of the 1939 'census'. I have records which show this. I cannot find a burial record that matches the other details.

The information on his birth on the 1911 Census records him as being born in 1875. Everything about his household is correct, except his birth date. All family members are correct and he appears on the 1939 census as still living. His wife Louisa Jane (Spooner) Davies is shown as being born in 1880, which is incorrect. She was born in 1878. I have the records.

How can I resolve these discrepancies and find the correct death details and a burial or cremation confirmation? No family member has been willing to, or able to, clarify this issue. One family member is certain he died in 1941 but there is no record of a burial. My family appears to have a penchant for secrecy on some matters.

Living in Australia makes it difficult to access the records I need and so far every lead has been unproductive. There are several William James Davies who fit one or other of the record sets but not my grandfather.

If there's anyone out there in Genes Reunited who can assist me I'd appreciate it.

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 10 Jun 2019 05:56

Where was he living in 1939 and what was his birth date?

For reference:

Marriages Jun 1897
Davies William Newport, M. 11a 353
SPOONER Louisa Jane Newport M 11a 353

Rose

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 10 Jun 2019 05:59

Ages on census will be as at the last birthday so if the birthday was later in the year after the census was taken then the year of birth could look one years out

For instance my dad was born dec1907 but when the 1911 census was taken he was still only 3 years old so his year of birth is down as 1908

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 10 Jun 2019 06:04

Have you got his birth cert with the actual birth date

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 10 Jun 2019 06:06

1901?

Name: William Davies
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 31 Mar 1901
Event Place: Graig, Monmouthshire, Wales, United Kingdom
County: Monmouthshire
Civil Parish: Graig
Ecclesiastical Parish: Bassaleg Saint Basil
Sub-District: St Woollos
Registration District: Newport
Residence Note:
Gender: Male
Age: 27
Occupation: GARDEN LABOURER
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birth Year (Estimated): 1874
Birthplace: Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Schedule Type: 114
Page Number: 21


Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Davies Head M 27 Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Louisa Davies Wife F 22 Bassaleg, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth M Davies Daughter F 3 Bassaleg, Monmouthshire
Willie Davies Son M 1 Bassaleg, Monmouthshire


Rose

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 10 Jun 2019 06:14

No mention of his middle name so far:

1911
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Davies Head Male 36 Newchurch, Monmouthshire
Louisa Jane Davies Wife Female 31 Parish Of Graig, Monmouthshire
Elizabeth Mary Davies Daughter Female 13 Graig, Monmouthshire
Willie Davies Son Male 11 Graig, Monmouthshire
Edwin James Davies Son Male 9 Graig, Monmouthshire
Louise Davies Daughter Female 8 Graig, Monmouthshire
Arthur Roy Davies Son Male 6 Graig, Monmouthshire
Blanche Davies Daughter Female 5 Graig, Monmouthshire
Gladys Cecilia Davies Daughter Female 3 Graig, Monmouthshire
Alice Davies Daughter Female 2 Graig, Monmouthshire
Etta Davies Daughter Female 0 Llantrisant, Glamorganshire

Rose

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 10 Jun 2019 06:17

This is the death picked up as him by a tree on ancestry

Deaths Mar 1940
Davies William J 66 Cardiff 11a 962

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 10 Jun 2019 06:22

Not born in Graig according to these to census records.

Rose

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 10 Jun 2019 08:15

There's no birth reg for him as William James

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 10 Jun 2019 08:46

Have you got a copy of the man’s marriage cert?

If not, you need it, to find out if he knew his father’s name etc

Why do you think he had a second forename? There is nothing to suggest that on any records found so far, including his marriage registration

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link!

Click ADD REPLY button - not this link! Report 10 Jun 2019 08:49

Who was his father according to his marriage certificate?

Rose

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 10 Jun 2019 09:11

Louisa in 1939 - if the tree on Ancestry is accurate regarding her DOB, although that tree holder says her hubby died in 1940, so room for doubt - especially as the person who compiled the tree doesn't even have accurate birth year info for some of the children

Heathfields Institution Woodbridge Road East,Ipswich, Ipswich C.B., Suffolk, England

Louisa J Davies 17 Sep 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties WIDOWED 4 42

So, unless Louisa lied, William died BEFORE September 1939

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 10 Jun 2019 09:21

Louisa's Probate - executor Willie Davies

Name: Louisa Jane Davies
Death Date: 28 Dec 1963
Death Place: Gloucester, England
Probate Date: 18 Mar 1964
Probate Registry: London, England


DAVIES, WILLIE SPOONER
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in NEWPORT MON Volume 11A Page 235

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 10 Jun 2019 09:54

Do you have a copy of either the 1935 or the 1940 death cert?

His wife will be named, which will confirm which one is the correct death.

You mention a burial or cremation record - there won't necessarily be one online. Once you know his date of death, you can enquire from cemeteries near where he had been living.



You can buy either death cert (or both) here:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
You have to register (free) to use the site - though of course you would pay for the cert.

The order form mentions air mail postage to addresses outside the UK, so I assume you can use the site from Australia.
You can check at certificate.services@gro.gov.uk
(or one of the helpers here will probably know the answer . . . . . . .EDIT: Yes, Erika does - see below )

You can order either a paper copy (£11) to be sent by post, or a PDF copy (£7) by email. Scroll down to near the bottom of the order form for the PDF option.


ErikaH

ErikaH Report 10 Jun 2019 10:09

GRO send certificates worldwide

At the moment, there is no way of knowing when, or where, he died.

The marriage cert would be a much more useful investment - if the poster doesn't already have it, and I don't think he does, as he believes, for some reason, that William had a second forename, which isn't borne out by any info found so far.

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Jun 2019 12:20

It's showing that I've looked at these records before- not sure when.

The 1939 register posted by Erika:

1939
Heathfields Institution Woodbridge Road East,Ipswich, Ipswich C.B., Suffolk,
Louisa J Davies 17 Sep 1878 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties WIDOWED 4 42

In the next building listed on the register is possible daughter, Gladys:

1939
Saint Johns Childrens Home Freehold Road, Ipswich C.B., Suffolk, England
Gladys C Davies 04 Apr 1907 Female Receiving House Attendant Single 5 23
--------------------------------

The dates on the register match this incoming passenger list:

Port of Departure Sydney, Australia
Arrival Date 9 Oct 1960
Port of Arrival London, England
Ports of Voyage Sydney; Melbourne; Adelaide; Fremantle; Colombo; Aden; Port Said and Piraeus
Ship Name Orontes
Shipping Line Peninsula and Orient Steam Navigation Company Ltd
Official Number 6821/01

L J Davies 17th Sept 1878
G C Davies 4th April 1907 School Matron
UK address for both 77 Milton Street, Brixham, Devon





AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Jun 2019 12:58

On the electoral registers Louisa Jane is living at 6 Tavistock Road, Surrey- William is listed there in 1935, but not after:

1935 6 Tavistock Road
Louisa Jane Davies
William Davies
-------------------------
1937 6 Tavistock Road
Louisa Jane Davies
Edgar Davies
Joseph Cyril Davies
-------------------------
1938 6 Tavistock Road
Louisa Jane Davies
Edgar Davies
Joseph Cyril Davies
-----------------------------
1939 6 Tavistock Road
Louisa Jane Davies
Edgar Davies
Joseph Cyril Davies
David Davies
----------------------------

Her son, David Davies was still living there on the 1939 register.

6 Tavistock Road, Sutton and Cheam M.B., Surrey, England
David Davies 04 Jun 1916 Male Ltpb Transport Driver Single
--------------------------------

Possible death:
Name: William Davies
Death Age: 62
Birth Date: abt 1874
Registration Date: Apr 1936
[May 1936]
[Jun 1936]
Registration Quarter: Apr-May-Jun
Registration district: Surrey Mid eastern
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 2a Page: 300

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 10 Jun 2019 13:08

Gladys Cecilia Davies is listed on Australian ER's - on Ancestry. My sub doesn't stretch to viewing them. But - confirms AustinQ's posting of Incoming passenger as being the right woman

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 10 Jun 2019 13:13

According to the tree on Ancestry, Gladys died in Oz

19/02/1989 Warrawong New South Wales Australia

As did her brother

Death of Brother Arthur Roy Davies(1907–1974)
24 May 1974 • Warrawong, New South Wales, Australia

Again, the research is very poor

Births Sep 1904 (>99%)
Davies Arthur Roy Newport, M. 11a 272

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 10 Jun 2019 13:13

The 1936 death for William is correct:

Burial Register summary
last name Davies
first names William
Burial date 22 June 1936
Location Sutton Cemetery (Sutton)

William Davies- Gardener- 6 Tavistock Road, Sutton
-------------------------------------

"...However I am sure he was still alive at the time of the 1939 'census'. I have records which show this."

What records do you have that show William was still alive in 1939?

Which child are you descended from? Just wondering if you are following the correct family- (Louisa's husband has no records showing a middle initial and he wasn't alive in 1939- so perhaps you are looking for a different William?)

Do you have have William's marriage certificate confirming him father's name?