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Service numbers

ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Unknown

Unknown Report 16 Feb 2020 20:29

Is there anywhere I can find service numbers from Ww1 and Ww2 for my ancestors

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 16 Feb 2020 21:15

www.forces-war-records.co.uk will give you service numbers for many people - but you won't necessarily know if they're the people you're looking for or not, unless they have unusual names.

Or try looking the people up on Ancestry's military records - or FMP if you have access to that.

Bear in mind that WW2 army records are not online, but some service numbers can be found.

If you like to give us the names, we can have a look for you.

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 17 Feb 2020 12:53

If they died during the Wars, their numbers will be on the CWGC site

https://www.cwgc.org/

Gwyn in Kent

Gwyn in Kent Report 17 Feb 2020 17:40

If they married when in the Forces, the certificate might show their service number.

An uncle of mine married during World War 2 and the certificate shows service numbers for both him and his new wife.

Unknown

Unknown Report 18 Feb 2020 20:41

Thank you everyone. I will try some of yr suggestions. The person I am looking for is James Walter Frank GORDON b1887 in Oxford. His wife was Martha Weston, she died in Oxford. but I cannot find a death record for James.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Feb 2020 23:23



James Walter Frank Gordon
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016
Name: James Walter Frank Gordon
Gender: Male
Age: 57
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1886
Death Date: abt 1943
Burial Date: 30 Jul 1943
Burial Place: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Cemetery Section: G1
Grave Number: 80


Deaths Sep 1943 (>99%)
GORDON James W F 57 Wandsworth 1d 348


Martha is buried in the same grave:

Martha Rose Gordon
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016
Name: Martha Rose Gordon
Gender: Female
Age: 64
Record Type: Burial
Birth Date: abt 1891
Death Date: abt 1955
Burial Date: 21 Nov 1955
Burial Place: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Cemetery Section: G1
Grave Number: 80

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Feb 2020 23:30

James W Gordon
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: James W Gordon
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Birth Date: 23 Nov 1885
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 20
Residence Place: Oxford, Oxfordshire, England
Occupation: Labourer
Schedule Number: 196
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: DXAU
Inferred Spouse: Martha R Gordon
Inferred Children: Elizabeth K Gordon
Kenneth Gordon
Household Members:
Name
James W Gordon
Martha R Gordon - 23 Sept 1891
Elizabeth K Gordon - 4 May 1920 [ later married Collett ]
This record is officially closed.
Kenneth Gordon - 7 April 1924



I don't see his birth anywhere.

His father's name was James Walter Gordon, deceased, publican, per his marriage banns.
JWF was a soldier with the Middlesex Regiment at marriage.
Address: Cowley Section Hospital


James Walter Frank Gordon
in the Oxfordshire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name: James Walter Frank Gordon
Gender: Male
Age: 31
Birth Year: abt 1888
Marriage or Bann Date: 9 Jan 1919
Marriage Place: Cowley, St Mary and St John, Oxfordshire, England
Parish as it Appears: Cowley S John
Spouse: Martha Rose Weston
Father: James Walter Gordon



Can't see him in censuses either, nor his father's death.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 18 Feb 2020 23:50

During the First World War, the workhouse became the Cowley Section of the Third Southern General Hospital — which had its HQ in the Oxford University Examination Schools — and was used by wounded servicemen.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/9406707.cowley-road-hospital-began-workhouse/

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Feb 2020 00:35

I think this is his army record -

James Walter Frederick Gordon
in the British Army WWI Service Records, 1914-1920
Name: James Walter Frederick Gordon
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wallingford, Berkshire
Enlistment Age: 29
Regimental Number: 40
Regiment Name: Duke of Cambridge's Own (Middlesex) Regiment, Football Battalion
Number of Images: 25
Form Title: Short Service Attestation
Family Members:
Name Relation to Soldier
James Walter Frederick Gordon

Discharged 19/9/19 because of wounds.

He was sent a King's Certificate on discharge, and he signed the receipt Frank Gordon.
His address was c/o Mrs Weston, Salyate (?) Road, Cowley, Oxford


He was also sent a War Badge and Certificate. His address on the receipt was
c/o Mr G F Weston, Salegate Lane, Temple Cowley, Oxford.

He's described as honest and hardworking.


Per the marriage banns, Martha's father's name is George Fulham Weston, carpenter.
Her address at marriage is Salegate Lane, Cowley.

Martha's another mystery - I don't see her birth, nor in censuses, nor her father in censuses.

The only other mention of a man of that name is here:

Clara Beatrice Weston
in the Somerset, England, Marriage Registers, Bonds and Allegations, 1754-1914
Name: Clara Beatrice Weston
Gender: Female
Age: 24
Birth Year: abt 1890
Marriage or Bann Date: 30 Jun 1914
Marriage Place: Cloford, Somerset, England
Parish as it Appears: Cloford
Father: George Fulham Weston <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse: Albert Frank Lapham

But that George is a coal merchant.
And then I can't see a birth or censuses for Clara! (Apart from 1939 which gives her DOB as 2 Dec 1890)

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Feb 2020 09:37

Aha! I think this is Martha:

Martha Weston
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Martha Weston
Age in 1911: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Servant
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Burmah, India
Civil Parish: Littlemore and Cowley
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street address: Oxfordshire County Asylum Littlemore R D
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Female Attendant
Registration district: Headington
Registration District Number: 152
Sub-registration district: St Clement
ED, institution, or vessel: 29-32
Piece: 8140



Martha Weston
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Martha Weston
Age: 9
Estimated birth year: abt 1892
Relation to Head: Niece <<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Burnah, India
Civil Parish: Ewelme
Ecclesiastical parish: Ewelme St Mary
Town: Ewelme
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Wallingford
Sub-registration district: Wallingford
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 1140
Folio: 39
Page Number: 14
Household schedule number: 101
Household Members:
Name Age
Jonathan Weston 55
Harriet Weston 45
Amy Weston 11
Agnes Bessie Weston 4
Beatrice Weston 1
Martha Weston 9

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Feb 2020 09:43

And just possibly Clara ??

Clara Weston
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Clara Weston
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1890
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Female
Birth Place: India
Civil Parish: St Clement
Ecclesiastical parish: Headington St Andrew
Town: Oxford
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: St Clement
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors:
Piece: 1380
Folio: 101
Page Number: 35
Household schedule number: 241

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Feb 2020 10:03

George Weston of Salegate Lane:

George Weston
in the 1911 England Census
Name: George Weston
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wallingford, Berkshire
Civil Parish: Cowley
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street address: Salegate Lane Cowley Oxon
Marital status: Married
Occupation: Coal Dealer
Registration district: Headington
Registration District Number: 152
Sub-registration district: St Clement
ED, institution, or vessel: 08
Piece: 8119
Household Members:
Name Age
George Weston 50
Harriett Weston 46 - Rothesay, Isle of Bute
Archibald Weston 6


He's a coal dealer, which would fit with Clara's stated father, coal merchant
But not with Martha's father stated to be a carpenter in 1919.

???

George Weston
in the 1901 England Census
Name: George Weston
Age: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1864
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Wallingford, Berkshire, England
Civil Parish: Cowley
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Cowley
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Headington
Sub-registration district: St Clement
ED, institution, or vessel: Oxford Cowley Military Barracks <<<<<<<<<<<
Neighbors:
Piece: 1383
Folio: 14
Page Number: 12
Household schedule number: 1
Household Members:
Name Age
George Weston 37 - private, soldier, single

Can't see how this man could be the father of Martha or Clara - unless he'd been in Burma/India and had fathered them there, while unmarried.
Then returned to England and become either a carpenter or a coal dealer ???

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 Feb 2020 11:59

First name(s) Martha Rose
Last name Weston
Sex Female
Birth year 1891
Place Toungoo
Country Burma
Organisation Armed Forces
Source Gro Army Birth Indices (1881 To 1965)
Archive
General Register Office
Archive reference BARM
Record's year range 1891
Page 404
Line number 16
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Births And Baptisms


??????????
First name(s) George
Last name Weston
Sex Male
Marriage year 1889
George Weston married one of these people
Eliza Moon, Lucy Maude Butcher
Marriage place Bangalore
Place type Place
Country India
Type Armed Forces
Source Gro Index Army Marriages (1881 To 1955)
Records year range 1889
Archive reference ARM2
Page 150
Line number 188
Archive
General Register Office
Record set British Armed Forces And Overseas Banns And Marriages

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 Feb 2020 12:59

freebmd shows 7 Gordon/Weston births in Headington district between 1920 and 1932

1939 register in full

16 Addison Crescent, Oxford C.B., Oxfordshire, England

James W Gordon 23 Nov 1885 Male Labourer Married 196 1
Martha R Gordon 23 Sep 1891 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 196 2
Elizabeth K Collett (Gordon) 04 Feb 1920 Female Laundry Packer Single 196 3
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Kenneth Gordon 07 Apr 1924 Male Greengrocer Assistant Single 196 5
The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

The record for this person is officially closed. Can I get around this?

Eric Brian Gordon 01 Sep 1930 Male At School Single 196 9

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 19 Feb 2020 13:17

A tree on Ancestry has this


Martha Rose Weston
Spouse: James Walter Frank Gordon
Father:
Mother: Eliza Moore**************************possibly the 'Moon' on marriage record
Children: Elizabeth (Betty) Kathleen
Birth: 23/09/1891 Myanmar
Death: 17/11/1955 Oxford Oxfordshire England
Residence: 1939 Oxfordshire England

Eliza Moore
1870–1897
BIRTH 1870 • India
DEATH 1897


First name(s) Eliza
Last name Weston
Birth year 1869
Death date 28 Dec 1897
Death year 1897
Age 28
Burial date 29 Dec 1897
Place Ferozepore
Presidency Bengal
Archive
The British Library
Archive Reference N-1-261
Folio -
Page 323
Catalogue Description Parish register transcripts from the Presidency of Bengal, : 1713-1948
Record set British India Office Deaths & Burials

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Feb 2020 14:13

Re Middlesex Regiment:

"The 1st and 2nd battalions both saw turns in India during the late 19th century."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middlesex_Regiment#Early_service


Good finds, Erika.
So George returned from India after Eliza's death, and was in Oxford Cowley Barracks in 1901.
As a widower, he is entitled to call himself single.
(I seem to remember reading somewhere that private soldiers weren't supposed to be married, and therefore are all listed as single. Might be an old wives' tale.)

The son Archibald in 1911 census:

WESTON, ARCHIBALD JOHN mms MACINTYRE
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in OF HEADINGTON Volume 03A Page 1022

Harriet was born in Rothesay, per 1911 census. I don't see her birth there.

EDIT:

Actually , on closer inspection of 1911, her name is Jeannie, mistranscribed as Harriett.

So this is the marriage:

Marriages Sep 1903 (>99%)
MCINTYRE Jane Headington 3a 1966
Weston George Headington 3a 1966

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 19 Feb 2020 14:38

Probably Jeannie's birth, assuming Rothesay is correct:

MCINTYRE
JANE
F
1864
558/ 129
Rothesay



Maybe, in view of father's name Archibald ??

Jane Mcintyre
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Jane Mcintyre
Age: 6
Estimated birth year: abt 1865
Relationship: Daughter
Father's name: Archibald Mcintyre
Mother's name: Sarah Mcintyre
Gender: Female
Where born: Rothesay, Buteshire
Registration Number: 558/2
Registration district: Rothesay Burgh
Civil Parish: Rothesay
County: Bute
Address: 21 Bridge St
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 5
Household schedule number: 63
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1871_94
Household Members:
Name Age
Archibald Mcintyre 35
Sarah Mcintyre 29
Jane Mcintyre 6
Mary Mcintyre 4
Sarah Mcintyre 2
Alexander Mcintyre 3 Mo


Now I have to stop myself - this is getting way off piste!

ErikaH

ErikaH Report 28 Feb 2020 15:20

Have sent Andrea the link to this thread by PM

The only response is that she has shared her tree with me.