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Looking for Agnes Mary Kelly, c1890

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ProfilePosted byOptionsPost Date

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 10:47

I have the marriage certificate of Montague Douglas Harrington and Agnes Mary Kelly, 15th January 1916.

His details:
Montague Douglas Harrington, 46 yrs, Widower. Bootmaker (Master), 5 Ravenna Road, Putney. Father Edwin Fryer Harrington (dec'd) Bootmaker (Master).

Her details:
Agnes Mary Kelly, 26 yrs, Spinster. Governess. 28 Elystan Road, Chelsea. Father Michael Kelly (dec'd), Commercial Traveller.

Witnesses: Sybil Vane and W. F. Strevens.

I have found a William Francis Strevens in the 1911,

First name(s) William Francis
Last name Strevens
Relationship Son
Marital status Single
Sex Male
Age 34
Birth year 1877
Birth place Surrey Clapham
Occupation Shop Assistant (original adds Boots & Shoes, which is appropriate)
Address 2 Prairie St Battersea Sw
County London, Surrey

All I know about Agnes is that she was a staunch Roman Catholic, so she might have been born just Agnes, and taken the name Mary at her confirmation. No idea of where she was born. Any help in tracking her down would be very much appreciated.

PS Montague D Harrington's father was William Harrington, who died when Montague was 6. His much older brother was William Edmund Friar Harrington, who had also died before 1916 - I wonder if he confused the two. I am not looking for any information about Montague, only Agnes.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 10:59

For the benefit of newcomers to this family saga - and for purposes of possible elimination - on your other thread you have discounted this family in 1911, because the census says the parents had had 4 children, (the three daughters listed here, plus a son Bernard) which doesn't allow for Agnes;


1911:
2 Greenhill Park, Harlesden, Middx
Michael T Kelly Head Married Male 59 1852 Commercial Traveller Wolverhampton
Lucy Elizabeth Kelly Wife Married Female 53 1858 - Coven Staffs
Margaret Kelly Sister Single Female 54 1857 - Wolverhampton
Mary Veronica Kelly Daughter Single Female 21 1890 Certificated Mistress Willesden
Celeste Margaret Kelly Daughter Single Female 18 1893 Uncertificated Mistress Willesden
Winefrede Lucy Kelly Daughter Single Female 16 1895 - Willesden

Page 15 of this thread:
https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1375583

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it

Shirley~I,m getting the hang of it Report 13 Mar 2019 11:20

have you found them on the 1939 register

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 11:32

????



Sister Mary Ciaran
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Sister Mary Ciaran
[Sister Agnes Harrington] <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Gender: Female
Marital status: Single
Birth Date: 14 Apr 1900
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 27 Brunswick Place
Residence Place: Hove, Sussex, England
Occupation: Sister of Charity
Schedule Number: 187
Sub Schedule Number: 6
Enumeration District: EJFE
Registration district: 80/1
Household Members:
Name
Charles Mehegan
Annie Mehegan
This record is officially closed.
William Mac Donald
Martin Mc Namara
Mary Ciaran
Mary Frideswinda
Mageret Mehegan
Bridget A Haugh
Edith E Strachan-Davidson


The image give the DOB as 22 May 1915, not 14 April 1900.
But the DOB of Mary Frideswinda on the line below, has been corrected from 14 July 1900 to 22 May 1915.
Seems like some mix-up somewhere.

There are a surprising number of Agnes Harringtons in 1939, but none with a Douglas or Montague.

If this is Montague's death, with age a few years out, then he should have been around in 1939:

Montague D Harrington
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Montague D Harrington
Death Age: 73
Birth Date: abt 1875
Registration Date: Sep 1948
Registration district: Hastings
Inferred County: Sussex
Volume: 5h
Page: 217

MargaretM

MargaretM Report 13 Mar 2019 11:37

Was his name Hamilton or Harrington? You have both in the opening post.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 11:44

Montague B Harrington
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Montague B Harrington
[Montague D Harrington]
Registration Date: Jan-Feb-Mar 1916
Registration district: Chelsea
Inferred County: London
Spouse: Agnes M Kelly
Volume Number: 1a
Page Number: 916

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 12:09

Sorry about that, no idea where Hamilton came from, I've corrected it now.

I haven't found either of them in the 1939 yet. Is there any way of finding 28 Elystan Road, Chelsea in the 1911 census?

I don't think that Sister you found in 1939 can be our Agnes, because Anne (for whom I am doing this research) remembers visiting her in the 1950s at her home in Hastings - unless she was there as a retreat or something, though it does look very interesting. And yes, that is the death of Montague in Hastings.

The marriage you listed above is the one, though I had to send for the certificate twice, as it shows page 916 for him, and 915 for her - of course I applied for the wrong one first.

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 12:25

Ah, just spotted the Sister Mary Ciaran is listed as single. I wonder who/how she was renamed as Agnes Harrington.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 12:27

In the 1939 I posted, the original name of Sr Mary Ciaran has been crossed out, and replaced with Agnes Harrington (not Sister Agnes Harrington as in the transcription).

So maybe she was with the Sisters temporarily, and then went back to Montague? - don't know if such a thing is possible.

The correction (or change) is dated 05/06/1968.
Code: CR283 BE

Agnes, and Sister Mary Fridaswinda (whose name has also been later corrected or changed to Mary Moon) are not living at a retreat house or similar. They are at a hotel. Charles and Annie Mehegan are hotel proprietors, and the other people at that address are hotel staff and other guests.

I don't know where the transcriber got the DOB 14 April 1900, as it doesn't appear anywhere on the image.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 12:44

Re possible mix-up in DOB's - just as a very long shot - here's the death of an Agnes Harrington with the same DOB as Mary Frideswinda's original DOB on the image, before the correction to 22 May 1915:

Deaths Jun 1980 (>99%)
HARRINGTON AGNES 14JY1900 NEWBURY 19 87

Nowhere near Hastings, though!
Does Anne know when Agnes died?

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 12:55

No, but Anne was born in 1954 and remembers visiting her - she had holy water outside her front door, and always asked if they had blessed themselves before letting them into the house.

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 14:37

How can I find 28 Elystan Road, Chelsea, in the 1911 census? I've tried but got 0 results.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 18:31

I can't find any reference to Elystan Road on a Google search, but apparently College Street changed its name to Elystan Street during 1912-17.

http://tinyurl.com/y3n5mba7

Perhaps the address on the marriage cert is supposed to be Street, and not Road ???
So perhaps it was still called College Street in 1911?


Ann Ellis
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Ann Ellis
Age in 1911: 76
Estimated birth year: abt 1835
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: PETWORTH, Sussex, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 22 Oakley Street, Chelsea S W ****
Marital status: Widowed
Occupation: PRIVATE MEANS
Registration district: Chelsea
Registration District Number: 4
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 379
Household Members:
Name Age
Ann Ellis 76

****
This has been transcribed as Ann Ellis's address, because it's the address of a Robert Donald who filled in the census return - perhaps her landlord??

Ann Ellis's address is actually 28 College Street.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 18:34

Another household with address 28 College Street is this one:

August Sattler
in the 1911 England Census
Name: August Sattler
Age in 1911: 37
Estimated birth year: abt 1874
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Germany
Civil Parish: Chelsea
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 28 College Street, Chelsea S W
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 14
Estimated Marriage Year: 1897
Occupation: HEAD WAITER
Registration district: Chelsea
Registration District Number: 4
Sub-registration district: Chelsea North
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Piece: 379
Household Members:
Name Age
August Sattler 37
Emily Maria Sattler 35 - London (Marylebone)
August T G Sattler 13 - Lambeth
Freda P J Sattler 12 - Lambeth
Dorothy S M Sattler 10 - Earlsfield
Case Alexander Sattler 7 [ Carl, not Case ] - Brixton

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 13 Mar 2019 18:44

AG ..............

re the 1939 Register.

I read somewhere that the FMP transcription was done by giving several transcribers each a COLUMN from a page.

So they worked by transcribing one column from top to bottom, then the columns were put together by other people to make the page.

People have often found that the lines across sometimes slipped during the latter stage ......... so that entries on the page did not always get the correct transcript.

Does that make sense?? I'm not sure that I'm describing it in an easily understandable way.

I do not know what process Ancestry used for its transcribers.

I have access to both, so could check the transcript on the site other than the one you used, if needed.

AustinQ

AustinQ Report 13 Mar 2019 18:59

Short on time, but a Mary Clara Thorne was listed on the electoral registers in 1915 at 28 Elystan Street, Chelsea

SylviaInCanada

SylviaInCanada Report 13 Mar 2019 19:03

This is the FMP transcript ..........

Mehegan Household (11 People) 27 Brunswick Place , Hove M.B., Sussex, England

Charles Mehegan 18 Dec 1873 Hotel Proprietor
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Annie (E Te) Mehegan 24 Nov 1880 Hotel Proprietress
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
William MacDonald 14 Mar 1879 Postal Superintendant (Retired)
Martin McNamara 28 Nov 1879 Postal Overseer
Agnes (Sister Mary) Harrington (Aaron) 22 May 1915 Sister Of Charity
Sister Mary Moon (Frideswinda) 22 May 1915 Sister Of Charity
Margaret Mehegan 14 Dec 1881 Domestic
Bridget A (Te) Haugh 16 Jul 1891 Governess Incapacitated
Davidson Strachan 19 May 1872 Private Means


The corrected date for Mary Moon to 22 May 15 is annotated with (BQ Rm 80) .. written in orange, as is the date and the correction of Frideswide to Moon.

I wonder if the transcriber assumed (not supposed to!) that because Mary Moon had originally been given the birth date 14 July 1900 and that it had been corrected during the period when the list was used by the NHS, that those 2 dates had originally been mistakenly ascribed to the wrong people from the hotel's information.

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 20:08

That method of transcribing the 1939 register sounds a recipe for disaster. No wonder its hard to search sometimes.

Excellent detective work finding College Street, but what a pity our illusive Agnes wasn't there. Where the heck was she hiding? I just hope I'm still around when the 1921 comes on line - if she's not on that I'll throttle her. She can't have just materialised on her wedding day, can she?

I suppose its as simple as her name having possibly been mistranscribed, but I can't think of too many variations for Agnes or Kelly - though I recently found a Cecil recorded as Peril. I'll keep on keeping on, any brainwaves much appreciated.

ArgyllGran

ArgyllGran Report 13 Mar 2019 20:36

Looking again at your opening post, Sister Mary Ciaran can't be your Agnes, unless there's an even bigger mix-up with DOBs than appears.

Your Agnes was born c1890 (assuming her age at marriage was stated correctly), not 1900 or 1915.

Jan

Jan Report 13 Mar 2019 22:38

Oh dear yes, you are right - I think I'm so desperate to find her that I'm clutching at anything that looks possible.

As she was 26 in January 1916, she was probably born in 1889. I really hoped that knowing her father's name and occupation would make it easier to pinpoint her, but the only Agnes/Michael Kelly combinations I have found have been in the north of England, with the father being coal miner or similar.

I've tried England, Scotland and Ireland too.